Is a new Remington 700 safe to buy?

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Happycamper

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Have they cleared up all the issues on all the new lineup?

I saw the show 2 days ago on how they tried to save 5 1/2 cents on each rifle.

I am afraid of the 700 if it has the old problem. I feel sorry for the ten year old kid and his family. I know how it is to have a kid get hurt real bad for life.


Do you think it is best to just go with a Winchester?
 
The 700 doesn't have a problem if it's maintained properly. That means you gotta pay attention to it once in a while, and not let it sit in a closet for the next 20 years.

Let the trigger assembly turn into a rust or crud ball, and any rifle has issues.
 
1 of the most dominate actions out there. The 700 will be around for a long time to come.
SO PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE & CHOKE ON IT CNBC!!!
 
700

They showed the US miliary shooting them with predicatable accidental discharges. Those rifles would be clean and not old. I do not think the test were rigged like a Chevy gas tank on a pickup during side impact but who knows.


Even the designer said it is flawed. I would not take it to a family gathering for first time plinking.


If your a sniper you would have to carry around a rilfe that you could not cycle since it would pin point you?
 
This issue has been known since the early 1980s it's really nothing new. H&HHunter has posted a couple of threads on this. The consensus seems to be that the new X-Mark Pro triggers correct the issue. (I've never studied the internal workings of either to satisfy myself that this is in fact the case.) I don't know if all of the Model 700s have the new trigger yet. You would have to verify that the model you are interested in has the new trigger and then make sure that it was made after the date that they switched.

I have a .223 with the old style trigger and a .308 with the new style. From my perspective as a shooter, the old style is better. I plan to replace both when I get some money. Neither of the triggers has given me trouble yet. I did have a professional adjust the trigger on the .223, but I have never had any trouble with it either before or after the trigger job. That isn't to say that it won't eventually happen. I don't make it a habit of testing the safety, and I don't think that any centerfire rifle is the best choice for a first time shooter. (Start them with a bolt action .22 loaded one at a time, you don't want them developing a flinch first time out, and loading one at a time reduces the risk of safety trouble.)

Also, I didn't see the program that you reference so I can't speak to it's accuracy, but in general I don't believe much that the media says. Anytime they air stories about my profession, they are always woefully inaccurate.
 
Remington brought this on themselves..........
They knew back in the early 70's that they had a problem with the 700. They never made a recall .
I was told that they had fixed the problem way back then.
I had one of their rifles--700 in 6MM rem.--great shooter-super accurate.
I came back to camp one year--went to open the bolt & the gun fired. I said " I never touched the trigger & the gun fired"
I sold that gun to a gunsmith & never looked back.
This goverment & the lawyers are probably behind this program---they are well on their way to control everything in this country......................
 
This issue has been known since the early 1980s it's really nothing new. H&HHunter has posted a couple of threads on this. The consensus seems to be that the new X-Mark Pro triggers correct the issue.

Actually, Mike Walker, the designer of the fire control system used in the 700 has been telling Remington since before the gun went into full production that the trigger had issues and that was back in the 1940s. Remington has been getting letter complaints for decades. The X-mark triggers do fix the problem and ironically, they are basically the fix that Walker proposed in 1947.
 
Remington brought this on themselves..........
They knew back in the early 70's that they had a problem with the 700. They never made a recall .

You got that right. If a manufacturer comes across something that isn't safe, they have an obligation to fix it, regardless of what the product is.

That said, how many Model 700s have been sold and how many reported cases have there been.
 
Actually, Mike Walker, the designer of the fire control system used in the 700 has been telling Remington since before the gun went into full production that the trigger had issues and that was back in the 1940s. Remington has been getting letter complaints for decades. The X-mark triggers do fix the problem and ironically, they are basically the fix that Walker proposed in 1947.

Not trying to argue, but do you have a source for that?
 
No, the design flaw is not fixed.
No, it is not best to just go with Winchester. There are many other choices available as well.
 
They showed the US miliary shooting them with predicatable accidental discharges. Those rifles would be clean and not old. I do not think the test were rigged like a Chevy gas tank on a pickup during side impact but who knows.

We wouldn't have any way to know if the tests were rigged. Military guns would probably be clean and fairly new, but who knows how many rounds they've thrown downrange. Probably a lot more than most civilian rifles.
 
You have to consider the source of this negative speculation about the 700 - CNBC. These are the same people that agree with huge government spending and tried to tell us that the recession was over a year ago. They are big government, anti-gun, anti-conservative, and worst of all, they are what is called "loose interpretationist." Meaning they don't believe ALL of the constitution is relevant to 2010.
 
I have M700s and M70s. They are equally quality, and I distrust both of them. They are simple mechanical devices, and they will/could fail. Follow the safety rules with an firearm.

Geno
 
It seems to me that the evidence has been in for many years about the 700's triggers. I have been aware of reports of the problem for many years, and I am not a big-time rifleman (well, not with this newfangled smokeless stuff). Why would you buy one if that's the case? We're not talking about a Mr. Coffee that might die before its brewed enough pots of Joe, this is a dangerous weapon that is not working correctly.

I completely understand the world of product liability, lawyers, and juries. And I can understand someone being loyal to a brand, because they have an example that hasn't had any problems (yet). This doesn't seem to be a matter of opinion, operator error, but rather a problem with the way the trigger and safety mechanism was engineered.

If in fact there is a fundamental engineering problem with the trigger, and has been since 1947, then every single 700 made since then is a risk. At least every gun that hasn't been modified to correct the problem. Why the heck would you buy one if aware of this issue - what's the rational reason for doing so?
 
This issue reminds me of the "unintended acceleration" that plagued Audi in the '80s and Toyota recently. With that issue it was always operator mistakes 100 % of the time. These threads are jokes. All mechanical creations can fail but 99.9 % of these reported problems have at their root, ignorant human actions which will always undo the best efforts of a manufacturer to make a safe product. There are those that are jealous of the inherit accuracy and strength of the 700 style action so I guess the nitpicking is earned.
 
You aren't playing Lotto, here...

Nitpicking (def): to denigrate an otherwise solid product because of an inherent, safety-related failure mechanism.

Did I get that right?

I don't see Savage, Kimber, Winchester leading the charge against Rem. So the owners of guns that presented them with AD's are jealous of the 700 action?

Why buy the 700 if there are other firearms out there that do the same job but without such a safety flaw?

And I'm not a Remington hater, as such, I love my 1100 and plan to own more. But I am convinced that Remington management, starting in the less lawsuit happy 1940's, made a decision weighing liability versus production costs or delays, and have gotten by with it so far. The flip side of that is when things do come to a head, they can't afford to fix it since its gone on for so long.

Forgive my sarcasm above, but you don't fix an engineering problem with what we call an "administrative control." You don't keep selling a gun that can go off unpredictably and by no operator error, and just simply preach gun safety. If there is an engineering solution, you apply it, making it as robust as possible. Then you apply the people-based control. Remington has their [appendage] in a wringer, and they aren't (and shouldn't be able to) going to be able to get it out without a lot of pain.


NO. Remington 700's without the trigger fix are NOT safe. Do NOT buy one.
 
My .02

I just got a new .308 700 SPSV this month and I've had no malfunctions with it and since reading all the stuff about the M700 trigger problems I've attempted to make it fail with just a primed case in it and to date it has not gone off accidentally.

I've fired a little over 200 rounds through it.

And I see no need to tinker with the factory trigger settings so it is and will remain as I received it.
 
Winchester, Weatherby, Howa, Browning, and Savage. They are all made better than the Remington. I used to be a die hard Remington fan but got tired of being sold accurate junk. Yes I said accurate. The stocks feel like junk, the finish is trash, and they rust like crazy.
 
What they showed us was out of context footage of one rifle exhibiting bad behavior. What do I mean by out of context? We don't know the history of that rifle. While you equate the rifle, being military issue, with cleanliness and newness, I, having served in the military, equate it with oldness, abuse and lots of disassembly/reassembly by grunts and armorers with questionable gunsmithing skills.

What they didn't show us were the millions of rifles which could not reproduce the bad behavior.

What they should have showed us was a mechanical drawing of the trigger group or the trigger group in action with a detailed explanation of what causes the behavior. Why didn't they do this? Because all they care about is stirring up frenzy against gun companies.

Based on this and other hearsay anecdotal evidence some are choosing to believe the side with the least amount of evidence. Every design has flaws. You could make this same video for every manufacturer of firearms. You watch. If this obvious attempt to take down Remington is successful, they will go after whatever your favorite manufacturer is, next.

What I see is a sad trend in America where the masses have lost critical thinking skills.
 
If there are millons of the remington 700 sold, why isn't there an outcry of cases of missfire or injury---i wonder--SO FAR SO GOOD WITH ME

I remember hearing about this problem for at least the last 25 years.

Remington should have dealt with it decisively then.
 
If there are millons of the remington 700 sold, why isn't there an outcry of cases of missfire or injury---i wonder--

easy. there were probably more guns sold than cartridges. most people who buy them never fire them. maybe if they're hunters, they put 5 rounds/yr through them. they don't practice (by golly, they're Americans and born knowing how to use deer rifles).

if people used their guns every day, like they use their automobiles, then it would be different
 
What they showed us was out of context footage of one rifle exhibiting bad behavior. What do I mean by out of context? We don't know the history of that rifle. While you equate the rifle, being military issue, with cleanliness and newness, I, having served in the military, equate it with oldness, abuse and lots of disassembly/reassembly by grunts and armorers with questionable gunsmithing skills.

True statement, we don't know the history of that gun. However, there DO appear to be documented cases of rifles firing when the safety lever is flipped. A similar thread in Rifle Country has a number of personal experiences related.

What they didn't show us were the millions of rifles which could not reproduce the bad behavior.

Are you saying there have been millions of rifles that were checked for this occurrence? More correctly, there have been some 5 million made and most of them haven't been reported to have this condition reported. BIG difference.

What they should have showed us was a mechanical drawing of the trigger group or the trigger group in action with a detailed explanation of what causes the behavior. Why didn't they do this? Because all they care about is stirring up frenzy against gun companies.

A drawing might have shown something that a few folks would have been able to either explain or understand. I don't see any frenzy being stirred, at least not that Remington hasn't brought upon itself by making a trigger assembly that is either a) inherently unsafe, or b) requires far too specific and special maintenance for the majority of non-gunsmith firearm owners.

Based on this and other hearsay anecdotal evidence some are choosing to believe the side with the least amount of evidence. Every design has flaws. You could make this same video for every manufacturer of firearms. You watch. If this obvious attempt to take down Remington is successful, they will go after whatever your favorite manufacturer is, next.

Neither one of us knows which side has the most evidence. I don't think that the reports of personal first person not hearsay reports on THR are unsupported, and cannot be heresay. Supposing that your broad statement that "every design has flaws" is correct, it is Remington's responsibility to correct the flaws as they come to find them. Continuous improvement. Actually lowers costs, and shows an initiative on the part of the company to improve the performance and safety of their product - a good lawsuit innoculation, too. Remington has chosen to stand pat.

What I see is a sad trend in America where the masses have lost critical thinking skills.

Could be true, but the broad statements you've presented are of the same vein.

Frankly, I don't give a hoot that Remington is a gun company, that this is ammo for second amendment opponents, helps the other side, whatever. If Remington has designed an unsafe product (and I know guns are inherently dangerous), and they continue to make and sell them knowingly, then I don't give a hoot if they get sued off the face of the planet - they made their own bed on this one. As far as those who refuse to "believe" - and will support Remington just because they are a gun maker, or because its never happened to you, I hope you're equally religious about following every tenet of gun safety 100% of 100% of the time.
 
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