Is Colt taking us for a ride on M4?
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Bill2e
Member
At least he admitted that the 30 round Mag is standard & not a "HIGH" Cappacity.
Lastly. while there maybe be other designs out there. It would be follish to send the manufacture of our military rifles to an overseas company.
The article also questions if the M4 is the best carbine for our troops, saying it jams. I would argue its a good rifle. You can always find some other rifle (HK, FN, etc) with bells and whistles, but is it really going to be that much better? And would it be worth it to invest in a new rifle?
I question the amount Colt charges the gov for M4s, but I think we should keep it around for a few more decades. JMO
I question the amount Colt charges the gov for M4s, but I think we should keep it around for a few more decades. JMO
Why do they buy new rifles when they could retrofit M16A2?
Just swap out uppers and replace the buttstocks. The lowers are the same as are the fire control parts. I've seen Air National Guard armorers do it to M16A1s before 9/11. They even stamped over the Auto with Burst when they changed out the fire control parts.
Any Infantry armorer could change over all his A2s to M4s in one day.
Plus it would cut the cost of new rifles by a third if not by half and keep from having to pay a contractor to shred serviceable rifles.
Just swap out uppers and replace the buttstocks. The lowers are the same as are the fire control parts. I've seen Air National Guard armorers do it to M16A1s before 9/11. They even stamped over the Auto with Burst when they changed out the fire control parts.
Any Infantry armorer could change over all his A2s to M4s in one day.
Plus it would cut the cost of new rifles by a third if not by half and keep from having to pay a contractor to shred serviceable rifles.
19 out of 100 carbines jammed in a firefight?
That isn't bad at all and so what if they jammed, that doesn't detail the exact cause of the failures which can be anything from bad ammunition to debris from explosions getting into the action.
It doesn't explain if the failure was immediately correctible either.
Firearms jam in combat,,,,so do radios, transmissions, and hatches, big deal.
You can't retrofit A2 rifles to M4 specifications in the military because they are marked as A2 rifles and not M4 rifles.
It would completely screw up the perfectly smooth flow of logistics and tracking to do something so obviously simple.
That isn't bad at all and so what if they jammed, that doesn't detail the exact cause of the failures which can be anything from bad ammunition to debris from explosions getting into the action.
It doesn't explain if the failure was immediately correctible either.
Firearms jam in combat,,,,so do radios, transmissions, and hatches, big deal.
You can't retrofit A2 rifles to M4 specifications in the military because they are marked as A2 rifles and not M4 rifles.
It would completely screw up the perfectly smooth flow of logistics and tracking to do something so obviously simple.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
I don't see where this is a Colt issue as being claimed. It may be a government issue. I don't see where there is any evidence that another manufacturer's M-4 would perform any better than a Colt. Simply put, Colt is delivering the product for which they were contracted. There may be a better platform out there, but that isn't a Colt issue. Colt doesn't determine what platform the troops get.
Is Colt getting rich? Well, probably not terribly rich, but they are doing better with the contracts than they were 20 years ago. Then again, so are most of the vendors dealing with the US Government. That is the nature of the war business. Once again, don't blame Colt. They didn't start the wars. It is not a Colt issue that they are making money, but the nature of the business. Since when is making a profit considered a bad thing in America?
Is Colt getting rich? Well, probably not terribly rich, but they are doing better with the contracts than they were 20 years ago. Then again, so are most of the vendors dealing with the US Government. That is the nature of the war business. Once again, don't blame Colt. They didn't start the wars. It is not a Colt issue that they are making money, but the nature of the business. Since when is making a profit considered a bad thing in America?
Eightball
Member
Ask Obama that, with his desire to have a federal profit-cap on executives in companies.
I love how all of these articles fail to point some things out: 1) the XM8 melts. 2) the 416 is only used for FA mag-dumps in some goofball scenarios that only the specops guys use, and the full-size rifle upper is less accurate than the A2 style.
Well when it comes to reports about the reliability of those M4s, who am I going to trust? The guy who shoots his gun in maybe a few matches. Or the guy in the field who uses that gun everday depending on it for his life? Jams may not be a big deal to you, but I'm sure the guy who's firing his rifle to fight for his life cares.
If the army wants a better, more reliable weapon, give it to them, whatever it may be.
If the army wants a better, more reliable weapon, give it to them, whatever it may be.
rangerruck
Member
Again, the contractor dude, who's leitner-wise i fired, said it ran like a sewing machine, in Afghanistan, with periods of non lube. that is what I'm all about.
Also about improving the AR; Mr. Sullivan of ar fame said three improvements are still needed , and easy to do , yet no one does them, because congress needs a fire lit under their asses.
1- an internal gas regulator in the tube, so that when the corners of the gasblock get rounded and smoothed , as the gas passes the corners of the years, the internal regulator never lets the rate of fire increase, no matter what.
2- go back to the origional powder for the case; burns cleaner and less hot.
3- longer channel area for the cam pin to travel- this will aid in extraction, keep down rate of fire, lock and unlock the bolt under less stress, and more positive,
, helps keep much better timing for all moving parts, just better all the way around.
Again, this is not me talking, but one of the origional armalite designers.
Also about improving the AR; Mr. Sullivan of ar fame said three improvements are still needed , and easy to do , yet no one does them, because congress needs a fire lit under their asses.
1- an internal gas regulator in the tube, so that when the corners of the gasblock get rounded and smoothed , as the gas passes the corners of the years, the internal regulator never lets the rate of fire increase, no matter what.
2- go back to the origional powder for the case; burns cleaner and less hot.
3- longer channel area for the cam pin to travel- this will aid in extraction, keep down rate of fire, lock and unlock the bolt under less stress, and more positive,
, helps keep much better timing for all moving parts, just better all the way around.
Again, this is not me talking, but one of the origional armalite designers.
inherentical
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That's the funny thing. A vast majority of service members I've talked to like the M4 just fine. Most of the arguments against the M4 I've seen are on the internet, made by people who have never even served in the military, let alone in combat.
when I went to a gun show, some guy told me this about a glock: "They go for about 550 bucks; 300 of it is for the insurance, and 200 is for profit give or take a bit for tax."
I guess that can sum up why they're paying double-to-triple the assumed price.
I guess that can sum up why they're paying double-to-triple the assumed price.
Caeser2001
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is colt the only new maker of m4s? every one I've ever seen was a fn
Caeser2001
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mine jammed every or every otehr round unless on 3 round burst, dirty gas tube? our armorer was too busy being our co's b!tch to do anything good for us so I rolled with the 590 and my m9 (which never jammed )
rero360
Member
Interesting, I had a M4 with the M203 attached, straight out of the box fro the factory, I stripped the factory preservative off of it, put some militec on it and called it good. Not once in the entire year did I have a malfuntion, come to think of it nobody did in my company. Some people had malfuntions during training stateside and Kuwait, but they tended to be the less gun savy individuals of the group.
FOB Rustamiyah, Baghdad. over 200 patrols to my credit.
FOB Rustamiyah, Baghdad. over 200 patrols to my credit.
stellarpod
Member
DMK writes:
Since Senator Coburn is from Oklahoma, a state that has NO dog in the firearms manufacturing game, I'd have to say your statement is groundless.
Senator Coburn was elected on a platform of fiscal responsibility. He promised to watchdog an out-of-control spend-happy Congress. He has done EXACTLY what he said he would do and has made plenty of enemies on BOTH sides of the aisle as a result.
He may be ill-informed about the technical aspects of the weapon(s) in question, but I only wish that ALL of our elected Congressmen and Congresswomen would likewise stay true to their word and properly represent the constituency by making sure that the procurers of such equipment get absolutely the most bang for our buck (pun intended).
Most importantly, Senator Coburn is a staunch supporter of our 2nd Amendment rights.
stellarpod
Since Senator Coburn is from Oklahoma, a state that has NO dog in the firearms manufacturing game, I'd have to say your statement is groundless.
Senator Coburn was elected on a platform of fiscal responsibility. He promised to watchdog an out-of-control spend-happy Congress. He has done EXACTLY what he said he would do and has made plenty of enemies on BOTH sides of the aisle as a result.
He may be ill-informed about the technical aspects of the weapon(s) in question, but I only wish that ALL of our elected Congressmen and Congresswomen would likewise stay true to their word and properly represent the constituency by making sure that the procurers of such equipment get absolutely the most bang for our buck (pun intended).
Most importantly, Senator Coburn is a staunch supporter of our 2nd Amendment rights.
stellarpod
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