Is it crazy not to buy assault weapons now?

[Justin]

I really don't care what the federal definition was as determined by a bill and neither do the vast majority of americans.

Appeal to Popularity

The purpose of bills is not to define words for the general public but to make law. The inclusion of certain handguns in the Assault Weapons ban was done to outlaw them and putting them under the legal definition of assault weapon did just that.

Then there is no fundamentally rational reason for someone to use the term "assault weapon" in 2011.

If there was a PR battle between gun owners and gun controllers over the definition then we lost.

There was a PR battle. One that was thought to be lost for the better part of a decade. Things have changed since then, and it's idiotic to continue to hew to such a defeatist attitude. Since the sunset of the ban, military-style rifles have become almost as mainstream as Justin Beiber, and the usage of terms like "military-derived," "military style," "sport-utility rifle," and the like have become mainstream. Those outside of the shooting fraternity who still refer to such guns as "assault weapons" are clearly incorrect and need nothing more than a minor correction that their terminology is incorrect.

Calling an AR 15 a sporting rifle is just as disingenous anyways given that is not what the gun was originally designed to do.

"Original intent," if such a thing can even be divined, is fundamentally irrelevant. Law scholar Eugene Volokh has taken this argument apart, and I've linked to it more than once. A search of the archives would be fruitful. Furthermore, many forms of technology developed in one field are eventually widely adopted in other fields. Arguing that an AR15 should be prohibited from the average citizen because it is derived from a military design is almost as stupid as arguing that anti-lock brakes should be prohibited from the average citizen because they were first developed by F1 racing teams and are therefore "only suitable for high performance automobile racing."

 

[wheelgunslinger]

^ Lawyered.

 

[JustinJ]

Quote:
The purpose of bills is not to define words for the general public but to make law. The inclusion of certain handguns in the Assault Weapons ban was done to outlaw them and putting them under the legal definition of assault weapon did just that.

Then there is no fundamentally rational reason for someone to use the term "assault weapon" in 2011.

To convey information using terms that people understand. Thats not a rational reason?

There was a PR battle. One that was thought to be lost for the better part of a decade. Things have changed since then, and it's idiotic to continue to hew to such a defeatist attitude.

The term today is benign largely because it is commonly used. It may have had use at invoking emotion at one time but that ship has sailed. Using it or not using is not going to change anybodies position on the issues. That is my entire point. It has nothing to do with defeatism or losing a battle.

But speaking of ambiguity I find it funny a board with rules against insulting each other that bills itself as providing a higher level of discourse it's apparently okay to call another's actions "idiotic". So where does the line exist then? We can't say "you are an idiot" but "what you're doing is idiotic". How about "you're acting like and idiot"?

Since the sunset of the ban, military-style rifles have become almost as mainstream as Justin Beiber, and the usage of terms like "military-derived," "military style," "sport-utility rifle," and the like have become mainstream.

But i thought those were also part of the New World Order-Masonic-CIA driven Media conspiracy for mind control? Again, like i said already technical clarity is not the real motivator in complaints against "assault weapons".

Quote:
Calling an AR 15 a sporting rifle is just as disingenous anyways given that is not what the gun was originally designed to do.

"Original intent," if such a thing can even be divined, is fundamentally irrelevant. Law scholar Eugene Volokh has taken this argument apart, and I've linked to it more than once. A search of the archives would be fruitful.

Nice stretch but no relevance to this discussion. We're talking about accepted use of a word by the public, not constitutional law.

 

[JohnBT]

If I bought an AR before Y2K and then bought another one before Obama was elected, do I have to buy yet another one now? When will it end?

John

 

[LCPor9mm]

AR

The elephant in the room is AR never stood for assult rifle, it was derived from the Armalite name; the original manufacturor of the AR-15 before Colt.

 

[JustinJ]

The elephant in the room is AR never stood for assult rifle, it was derived from the Armalite name; the original manufacturor of the AR-15 before Colt.

Who ever thought different? We are discussing use of the term "assault rifles" in reference to a class of guns. AR platforms are just used as an example of a gun the term is often applied to.

 

[asia331]

I would not focus upon arms exclusive of parts, ammo and components needed to support your arms for the long haul.

 

[alsaqr]

If Obama wins, it is inevitable that we will see another run on guns, ammo, and reloading supplies.

Most likely. Unscrupulous gunshow promoters, gunstores, ammunition suppliers and others will be crying the sky is falling while they raise gun and ammo prices. Gunowners and wannabe gunowners will suck it all up while buying more guns and ammo.

i've bought several nice "assault rifles" for one-half to two-thirds what the former owners paid during the last big scare.

 

[General Geoff]

To convey information using terms that people understand. Thats not a rational reason?

Define the terms, define the argument, win the argument. Debating 101.

As an aside, a lot of gun enthusiasts are technically oriented, and throwing around the term "assault weapon" is as vague as a car enthusiast using the term "race car." I don't see that happen often either. I don't use either term because I know how vague they are.

 

[JustinJ]

Quote:
To convey information using terms that people understand. Thats not a rational reason?

Define the terms, define the argument, win the argument. Debating 101.

The point of something like a news article, where most complain about the use of the term, is supposed to be to inform. Not to debate. To do so one uses language that is widely understood by the audience. Journalism 101.

 

[LCPor9mm]

That's different

We are discussing use of the term "assault rifles" in reference to a class of guns. AR platforms are just used as an example of a gun the term is often applied to.

Like it or not, the term assault rifle has become synonymous with AR. I'm sure that is someone or some groups fault but frankly, I don't care. If my S&W M&P is referred to as a battle rifle, assault rifle, black gun, or a sporting rifle......I DON'T CARE! It is what it is, a weapon designed for military use that is both legal and fun for me to own and shoot. Call it what you like.

 

[happygeek]

JustinJ, I'm mildly curious, and I don't recall seeing you state this yet, but what exactly is the defintion of "assault weapon" that you're running with?

 

[JustinJ]

JustinJ, I'm mildly curious, and I don't recall seeing you state this yet, but what exactly is the defintion of "assault weapon" that you're running with?

It's like porn, you know it when you see it. Kidding, but not entirely.

To me, and the general public, it is essentially a modern military style carbine. Subtracting one such feature from a rifle, be it a flash hider, bayonet lug, or even select fire does not move it in or out of that classification. For example, if a soldier's selector switch suddenly breaks and all he can fire is semi auto I don't think the gun is suddenly no longer an assault rifle which is part of the reason why the term has ambiguity.

Now if you replace the detachable box with a permamently installed one, remove the pistol grip, flash hider, semi-auto capability and bayonet lug it is arguably no longer an assault rifle but at which specific point in time the change occurred is hard to say.

 

[Panzercat]

Is it crazy not to buy assault weapons now?

No. Only the fixation on the 'assault' part.

 

[happygeek]

What exactly do you mean by military style?

 

[JustinJ]

What exactly do you mean by military style?

Well, i'm not talking about khaki colored and loose fitting. It means originally designed for or commonly employed by the military.

 

[happygeek]

To me, and the general public, it is essentially a modern [originally designed for or commonly employed by the military] carbine

What year of design makes it modern?

 

[JustinJ]

What year of design makes it modern?

Well, 1947, of course... Did i say it must have been designed in modern times? Maybe i meant used in modern times.

The fact is, like i said already, it is a general term without a concise defintion so if this is an attemp to bait me into self contradiction of what "assault rifle" means it's not going to work.

 

[happygeek]

Why 1947, because of the AK? How do you know if a given rifle was designed for the military?

I'm asking because you seem to like the term and I was wondering if you had exactly that, a concise definition.

 

[JustinJ]

Why 1947, because of the AK? How do you know if a given rifle was designed for the military?

1947 was a tongue in cheek reference to the AK47.

I suppose designed for combat may be a better description but essentially it is a rifle designed with features that are primarily advantageous for infanty in military applications.

I'm asking because you seem to like the term and I was wondering if you had exactly that, a concise definition.

In what way do you think i "like the term"?

 

[Justin]

FWIW, this is the exact point at which I realized that continued participation in this thread was nothing more than a waste of time.

But i thought those were also part of the New World Order-Masonic-CIA driven Media conspiracy for mind control? Again, like i said already technical clarity is not the real motivator in complaints against "assault weapons".

 

[INMY01TA]

Amen. ^^

 

[rromeo]

Like it or not, the term assault rifle has become synonymous with AR.

It may be, but I believe the first time I heard the term assault rifle, or assault weapon, it was referencing AK style rifles. it was mid '80s and some guy had shot up a school.

 

[fal762x51]

Hey this thread has had a lot of drift, some of it moderator-induced, and has now degenerated into a war of language semantics. Maybe it needs to be shut down.

 

[robert2035]

buy a few rifles, maybe a pistol/revolver, possibly a shotgun.
i own a ak platform and a revolver and i need a semi pistol. so try to diversify in calibers. 9mm, .38, .45, 5.56, .308, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 are popular or cheap enough to buy in bulk, even .45 is buyable in bulk. reload now instead of later.