Is it just me?

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Carl Levitian

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For quite a while now, I've seen these self defense items for sale, designed to slip by security by lookinng like something innocent. Things like the Comtech stingers, plastic daggers that won't set off metal detectors, re-enforced felt tip marking pens, keychain knuckle dusters made out of high tech plastic. Hairbrushes made out of plastic with a plastic/zytel spike inside it.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see a fly in the oinment?

I wonder at the marketing that makes a presumption that the security people never get any bullitins on this kind of stuff. As much as we may want to think of the various security personel as being low pay idiots, all its going to take is one of them who is a member of a forum like this, or has looked at a Cold Steel catalogue to ruin your day at the airport.

I wonder, why not take a really normal object, and learn to put it to good use? I see all these intricate molded impact kubotons, and I wonder why not just carry a AA minimag flashlight? For one thing, last time I checked, it still gets dark every night like clockwork, and a light sometimes is a handy thing to have. You can even buy LED conversions for your minimag, thus improving the amount of light as well as run time. Or you can buy a better light from Inova or other companies made with a metal body. Last couple times I flew on Southwest airlines, my minimag never got a second glance. After getting it out of the plastic tray with my keyring, cell phone and change, I walked right onto the plane with it. Thats kind of the ultimate security test, isn't it?

Or the all metal pen. Nobody ever questions a nice Cross, Parker, or Zebra pen. Its handy for signing things, filling out lugage tags. My old training sargent had some really dirty tricks to hurt somebody with a Cross pen.

I guess what I wonder, why bother with all these thinly disguised items that sooner or later will put you in an unfavorable light, when there's soooo many day to day items that really are innocent, but can be used for a defensive tool. Not to mention the liability. If one politically aspiring deputy D.A. chooses to make a case out of you to further his own cause, why make it easy for him by using some mall ninja disguissed weapon. It's going to be very hard for somebody to make a case out of a pen or fllashlight that is sold by the millions vs some item out a catalogue from a cutlery company that markets stuff your grandad in a lifetime of deer and squirrel hunting would never have used.

I guess I just like to keep a low profile. Why give them ammo to use against you?

I think in addition to planning your self defense, you have to plan on the aftermath of the cops filling out the reports that are going to be read somewhere up the line.

I like to use everday items that are designed for the real use and can be pressed into defense service, rather than a self defese item made to look like the everyday item.
 
Carl,

I chalk it up to the "007" factor, the cool guy, Oh-So-Special hangovers of too many generations of adolescents who never grew really up and never got over the Q fascination of the spy movies. The fascination with gadgets runs both wide and deep, it seems.

The folks actually working in the field came up with things like string holsters, that could be easily fabricated out of available materials to fit whatever sidearm came to hand and, if discarded, drew no attention. Practical and useful, in other words. Not high speed and low drag.

Meanwhile the folks back at Muppet Labs came up with things like lapel daggers in sewn-on leather sheaths, which if found immediately and clearly identified the carrier as part of the Oh-So-Special crowd, deserving of special attention from the Gestapo.

Go figure...

lpl
 
my grandkids call me a geek (lovingly) cause I have a pocket protector with a parker jotter, a small screwdriver combo, and a nailfile, a 6 inch metal ruler and a thick sharpie, my keys are on a decidedly old fashion leather belt snap. my belt buckles are heavey and western, as are my boots. The call my cane my old man stick, and my mag lite my extra eyes,The older one know about the gun and knives (and enough not to touch them) but dont get the rest of the get up yet.
Oh well if Im a geek so be it!!
 
No it is not you. Its ummm...marketing?

They play to a "Walter Mitty " desire in some shoppers.

I'll stick to my plain old Parker and Inova.
 
I actually think the Stinger looks like a pretty good product, but haven't handled one myself. Don Rearic mentioned it'd be perfect for a college age daughter or someone like that, and I can see that.

I understand the need for under-the-radar non-weapon weapons (pens, flashlights...) but heck, if there is something that happens to be effective AND look like a weapon, why not? Jurisdiction and jury issues aside, you're either justified in defending yourself or not. Whether you use a rubik's cube or a switchblade to do it, you better have justification!

I do think the plastic Zytel daggers are kinda dumb. And I think it has to do, like someone else said, with Walter Mitty type guys. The best weapon for assassination* that I can think of would just be a length of rope, and you can find/make that ANYwhere. Heck, a shoelace.

*I am certainly not advocating, or portraying as justified, the act of assassinating someone. Merely speculating on what a real killer might do, as opposed to buy a made-to-order "stealth" weapon.
 
I agree that this stuff is tabboo, and so some how it has become 'cool' what ever that is. But we live in a day where if you own something it must also be you know what it is and how to use it.

My son says "It's all about Image Dad!" and he's 28!

Just looking around at the new age kids who are 30 something and less it is like no man before owned anything made of steel, and that this is the new steel age or something, and so specialized that only a certain tool can be used for a given senario.

The timing somehow becomes critical. Most of that means right now... So I guess the 120 seconds it takes me for start a fire with a bow drill any time and any place I want is less than usless since you can do the same thing with a BIC faster.

Pretty much you can't name a object i can't make a weapon of if I had a need.

I have seen grown men flatend with a roll of toliet paper mounted on a stick all duct taped up , and after that roll had been set about soaking in a little water. and these men were wearing body armor made of steel! LOL

I agree a short line can be anything, but how many people can cord a short line these days. Most guys seem to have a time of it just taping a new rope so it won't create a pont tail, much less know how to cord fiber by hand.

This tech was once just so basic everyone knew how and a time passed and no more is it even thought of.

I bet there isn't 20 men here who can start a fire with out a lighter or matches, at night in rain.

Some of the kids I see can't start fire with 20 BIC on a dry day under the sun!

But with the right Ninja tool they can do anything :rolleyes:
 
Having been issued a zytel dagger by the navy for SAR and ordinace work they are great for medium tasks, but can be driven through a treated 2x4. just dont expect to use it again. rhey also make tool and probe sets for gun cleaning and EOD.
 
macmac, does it count if I have a magnesium fire starter :D. I have to admit I never learned how to rub sticks together to start a fire. The army didnt teach me how to either:banghead: i suppose if I get some dry branches and dry leaves or hay or something that I could do it with sticks and I bet I can knock certain types of rocks together to make something spark.
 
I can start a fire at any time day or night with magnesium, but I had to practice with it to learn how to do it. It's one of those things my dad taught me for no discernible reason when I was a kid (8 year old making fire? For shame!), but now I appreciate the skill.
 
Taught my 9 year old daughter and her Girl Scout troop to make fire with a flint and steel as well as a couple of her friends who weren't in scouts.

Most of what the knife/weapons industry does is make toys for children of all ages to play with. Most will never learn to use them and many more than that will never put them to use. That being the case you have to keep making new toys to sell to help keep the apatite wetted. I'm happy to help the companies that I consult for do this because I know they're not needed. On the other hand, I'm not going to come here and tell Walter that his fantasies built around these toys is real or that they're actually needed.
 
Carl,

I agree 100%. And I always have locks, sturdy belts, and lights with me when I travel.

John
 
Pretty much you can't name a object i can't make a weapon of if I had a need.

cotton ball :eek:

Seriously though. good points all. I think if anything a "non conspicious" (sp?) weapon is TWICE as obvious ( and probably inciriminating).

+1 On the flashlights. Another non weapon weapon. I got hit in the head by a Taco Bell Taco doing about 60 mph. thrown out of a speeding Buick! Laid me right out. I thought I'd been shot!:scrutiny:

Bet the guy still laughs about it. I would. That's a tough shot to make.
 
To me? NO No way.... All of that stuff is store bought, and if you ain't near a store when you need fire then what?

I run flint and steel but that steel is store bought too, and so it don't count either. Nor does a glass lense at night or in rain..

Whatcha gonna do? And now I read every book by anyone who said they knew how to use 2 sticks, and most of what I found was none of them really knew how to use 2 sticks. I admitt it made for great reading, but when I tried all the stuff it failed.

I went to the task and learned it the right way, and made it work.

I still see it written wrong, and my bet is you can't, not in time anyway, if you just think you can, and never try fail and try again.

What I found is there is 1,001 things to go wrong and 1 to get it right.

Even for me with nothing and I do mean totally nothing, no food, no shelter and no clothing, no tools no nuthin it would take me at least 8 hours to gather the tools to make fire, and first fire.

That would be a real rugged first few 8 hours too, and if it were that today i would die first. Right now I am getting dumped on and have 1 foot of fresh snow, and I don't know when it will stop. It hasn't yet, and if suddenly right now i lost everything I would be close to doomed. There is 3 feet of old snow under what there is coming new too, and it is about +15 at the moment.

Most guys won't take a lesson and think I am silly, so a thread never gets very far, but I am willing to help as best I can from where I sit if there is any interest.

So far I had once a stick and striker of magnesium, but I lost it long ago and never used it once. I don't even think of it anymore. it is store bought, and in a time of real need I might not have it, or even have access to a store or any money.

In my very foolish opinion some dark days are headed our way, and if I had 5 bucks, I would prefer to pay for something more than some funky tool that will get lost or soon be worn out.

The way I look at things is I want to take care of me and mine with out anything store bought, and if I can do that any thing else is a plus, aka gravey...

The challange: cotton ball + chloroform = deader than dead...

Might need another item, as a bar of steel is just another bar of steel untill heat and man make it a weapon. To me of all tools fire is the one tool that will do so many things man can not live with out.

Man with out fire wouldn't have survived. It ain't about BBQ, it is about tools, and nearly no tools are made with out fire somewhere in the process.

In order to make a paint brush, some where along the line a man made a fire to make the tools to make the paint brush. Probably before man could work stone he made fire and so hardened wood for the first tools.

I just can't prove it.
 
Parker Pen vs Colt 45
Sturdy Belt vs Tactical Tomahawk
Mini Mag-Light vs KaBar

Get my point?.....No disrespect meant as you all may choose whatever defensive tools you think are going to keep you safe.
Fact is the Com-Tech Stinger and Zytel Knives are not bad choices and they were not invented (if you know their history) as something to get past TSA people at the airport and then onto the plane. Point is when guns are blasting and bullets are flying I'm not going to feel well protected drawing my Cross (metal) pen and pencil set...Let me ask you this...are criminals carrying the most politically correct (doesn't look like a weapon and I won't get guff from the police) SD tools. Having a Cross pen in a pocket protector for just about anyone to grab and use on you is an unwise tactic. Even the police are warned against such things, and that is why they make rubber bodied pens for them to use.
Be prepared, Get the training, Have the correct equipment and worry about the political correctness afterward....that is after you walk away unharmed, first you must survive.....Doc:D
 
I don't think anyone is saying don't carry the most effective weapons available. I've just had the hardest damn time carrying my handguns on commercial flights lately, for some reason...:rolleyes:

John
 
are criminals carrying the most politically correct (doesn't look like a weapon and I won't get guff from the police) SD tools

No...they are carrying illegal weapons in general.

Are you suggesting we should too?

Point is when guns are blasting and bullets are flying I'm not going to feel well protected drawing my Cross (metal) pen and pencil set

Neither would I.
Are you able to carry a firearm legally every where you go?
Some of us can't.

Have the correct equipment and worry about the political correctness afterward....that is after you walk away unharmed, first you must survive.....Doc

Yep great advice :scrutiny:. You can even worry about the political correctness in general population at the state penn later too. Maybe you'll be able to smuggle in your stinger or zytel knife.
 
Ok My Bad....If we are only talking about the Airplanes only then you have to use something ordinary that won't draw suspicion. But the things mentioned in the original post stingers, zytel knives etc. are already banned on flights as they exist on the FBI list of things that one cannot board an aircraft with...so the original assumption is invalid. No.... airport security people are not stupid, the only stupid people are the one's trying to board aircraft with a restricted item....Doc:D
 
Todd: I'm not suggesting you do anything illegal...I'm suggesting you do whatever you think is right for you....Yes I can carry a firearm anywhere I go, sorry....I'm not planning any trip to the state penn anytime soon, are you?....FWIW...A Cold Steel Nightshade was smuggled into the state penn here in NY recently and was used by one of the inmates in a stabbing of another.....and FYI, I wasn't the one to smuggle it in for him.....Doc:D
 
I'm not planning any trip to the state penn anytime soon, are you?.

Nope never......far worse can happen to me in prison than in the parking lot of a Stop&Rob.:what::what::what::eek::eek:

I make do with what I can carry.
 
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