Is it "Wasteful"....?

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Double Naught Spy wrote:


Is returning a pest species back to nature after killing wasteful if it can be used as food for humans. Is that the actual question at hand?
Yes, but admittedly rhetorical...since I already know my position on it. Still I am interested to know the feelings of others and why they think what they do.


I would assume this is pig specific.
Yes.


So you returned the hog to nature. Was it a waste? You reduced the depredation on your resources (plant foods, water, ground bird populations, WATER, etc.), reduced competition with your desired animals (various birds, small game animals, deer, livestock), and you help alleviate some pressure on your desired animals by feeding the predators. From a stewardship perspective, I would say that what you have done is not wasteful, but beneficial to the local area.
Well...now you've brought logic and facts into the discussion! For Petes Sake man...did you never watch Charlotte's Web?

Anthropomorphism....at its finest. ;)

DNS, I happen to know you have Feral Hogs your property too, so I already knew your thoughts on the subject. :D
 
Well, like you I live here in TX and have property up in the Palestine area, plus I run the roads with a very close friend who has property in Houston and Limestone counties.

We were both raised up like most, if you put it down you put it in the skillet. To be honest I have had that lesson driven home a couple of times in my youth.

This said, I keep a chest freezer that was given to me sitting there with only a few bags of ice in it, and ready for fresh meat at any given moment. I don't sweat the temp too much if I am close by and can get it loaded up and hauled to the house in a hurry, but if I have to wait more than 15-20 minutes when it's warm, well it gets drug off to the back pasture for fertilize or vermin feed.

While out with my friend on his place his rules go. If we're working and they are simply stupid enough to show themselves, they usually stay right where they drop. If we're not working, and I have room, I will do what I can to get them dressed out and in the cooler.

As for a waste, well I have been spoken too by quite a few folks about that, and usually they are ruffled up because they figure that since I don't want it I should clean it and bring it to them, or better yet haul them up there for free, and let them shoot them their selves. These same folks seem to not like the idea of me burrowing their boat and going fishing when it suits me though.
 
So, what approach/explanation would you use/have to address the concerns of those raised to think "Don't kill it...if you're not going to eat it"?

Good question Flint, and I would choose to use the logic of ecological stewardship.

I was raised to think, and still do, that you eat what you kill. I completely abide by this as we here in North America for the most part don't need to hunt to feed ourselves day to day and, as Carlos Mencia has pointed out, generally speaking we go hunting on a full stomach for fun. Other parts of the world don't have it so well. So, from the aspect of hunting as a means of sport, I completely agree with the idea that you need to eat what you kill. I'm still working on the deer I shot last fall, got something like 80lbs of meat out of him.

Now, in regards to being a good steward of the environment I live in, research and knowledge of the natural flora & fauna are required. I'm more familiar with how Missouri worked on this issue, so I'll use that as my source. Missouri DNR views hunting as a means of population control in lieu of natural predators for game species. That means that in the course of a year, a certain percentage of animals are expected to be predated on and removed. Since there are far fewer natural predators (wolves, mountain lions, bobcats, bears) for game such as deer and less competition among other species for food (elk, buffalo, bears), human hunters are needed to step in and fill the predation gap. Now, in order for hunting to be successful at managing a population, it needs 3 key elements:

1) Tags must be cheap enough that anyone who wants to hunt can and can do it as much as they want while still limiting the number of animals taken to appropriate levels
2) Adequate land is avaliable for the number of hunters to hunt with reasonable success for an apex predator
3) There must be a means of handling excess harvest that hunters themselves can't consume

Missouri has accomplished this quite well and each year, nearly 250000 lbs of deer meat goes to food banks in Missouri as a result of hunters having more deer than they can eat and Missouri still has a healthy deer population. Now, they have feral hog as well and Missouri still adheres to the 3 elements above, but makes one clear distinction: Feral hogs a not a native species to Missouri. They are an invasive species that is a result of transplanting the Eurasian Boar to the Americas for European hunters to hunt and cross-breeding with escaped domesticated hogs. They are extremely destructive to habitat, carry disease, and predate on other animals as they can. Missouri has implemented a policy of complete eradication of the hogs by allowing hunters to use whatever equipment they choose to during anytime of day anywhere they are legally able to hunt.

Now, how do I make the distinction of waste? Most species in North America were here by natural selection and the result of forces beyond any persons control. They are to preserved and kept healthy for future generations to enjoy. For the animals that were brought here by an act of man, they are to be removed by any method that is deemed fit to remove them. In the case of hogs, they consume the environment they invade. I find it fitting and perfectly ok that they be consumed by the environment they invaded. After all, if a deer drops dead of old age something out there eats the carcass.
 
DNS, I happen to know you have Feral Hogs your property too, so I already knew your thoughts on the subject.

Actually, I don't like to resorting to feeding the coyotes and buzzards, but it does not bother me so much that I will go out of my way to preclude it. I have a couple of neighbors I can (and do) call. Either they want the dead hog or they don't. If they do, they come get it and process it themselves. I'll help load it in their truck. :)
 
Damn you FlintKnapper
you could be feeding the homeless illegal Mexican immigrants...

But considering the amount of 'yuckies' (as in thing that can and WILL kill you)
in wild pig
I'd just let the yote get them, maybe it'll increase the yote numbers and help keep the next generation numbers down.

I put feral hogs in the same class as locus, weevils, deer etc. when it comes to PEST control, you worry about killing them first, then find a place to throw the dead bodies where they won't cause any more problems.
 
i've killed about one hundred hogs this year. Every one of them went to someone who wanted meat: Some were sent to the butcher, processed and donated to the local food bank. Some were donated to folks in the sheriff's drug court.

There for awhile it got hard to give away a hog that was not skinned; so i skinned a lot of hogs.
 
wankerjake wrote:

I'd say your coyote problem is as bad as your hog problem!

We do have a good number of Yodel Dogs here...but their numbers are not out of line with the available prey animals (in my estimation).

From what I have observed, buzzards do most of the "cleaning up"... provided the carcass is available to them first, (read daytime).

I will take a pic next time I put a hog out, but there will be upwards of 50 birds on/near the carcass within hours. I am not exaggerating to say that I have seen 100 birds (total) either feeding, vying for position or waiting in the trees.

The Yotes more often have to settle for the bones and hide, the exception being.... if the carcass is deposited at night or late evening, in which case you rarely find it the next day.

The coyotes either consume it completely (except for the hooves and skull) or drag it off so far you can't locate it.
 
^^
Well....everyone except the hogs.

Anthropomorphism....at its finest.

Sorry I don't have anything original to add, but am enjoying the thread.
 
I kill as many as I can in the winter and fill up my freezer. It is much easier to ensure that my family won't get sick when the weather is cool.....

Once it starts to hit 80+ everyday then all the carcasses are left for the yotes and the buzzards

I feel good that all winter I have been packing away as much meat (hog) as possible and don't feel bad that all hot season long the yotes and buzzards have gotten their share.

ID
 
Given that hogs are pests--tasty though they may be--they at the very least need to be controlled as to numbers.

If feasible, sure, use the meat. Feasibility is not necessarily a 100% thing, but destruction by feral hogs is indeed 100%. So, just figure that "shoot it and leave it" is nothing more than recycling within nature.

And are we not told on a daily basis by government, the media and the Greens that recycling is a Good Thing? Why deprive nature? Coyotes and buzzards gotta eat.

Suggestion: Trail along behind a shrimp boat when they're culling the catch. You almost instantly learn that in nature there is no such thing as waste.
 
I wondered the same thing about dove in Argentina; if you and five of you friends shoot a thousand a day for five days, what do you do? You certainly cant take it back with you and even a small village would have a hard time eating all that.
 
Flint, an ideologue isn't going to be capable of seeing the difference between "Hunting" and "Pest Eradication" to them it's all the same. to those folks killing ANY animal, Feral Invasive Species, Game Animal, or even a Predator with a record of attacking humans is not a acceptable option. Some folks just cannot see that there is always another viewpoint or a reason for doing something they disagree with.
 
but a well reasoned response that will make sense to an ideologue

Oxymoron.

If the pictures, after 24 hrs doesn't change their mind that it is not waste, nothing will.

Ideology is sometimes defined as : "theorizing of a visionary or impractical nature. "

Thus cannot be resonned with.
 
How many hours in a day? And a farmer or rancher has to work, do miscellaneous chores and then eat, spend time with the wife and kids and then sleep.

How much time can he devote to killing pestiferous hogs? How much time should he take from necessary work or from sleep to deal with butchering a hog?

For those affected the most by feral hogs, worrying about "waste" is something for other folks: Those without that problem to deal with, or way too much time to think about stuff which is of no concern whatsoever to them.

IOW, if you're gonna worry about "waste", you don't have a hog problem on your farm or ranch. Or golf course. :D
 
How many hours in a day? And a farmer or rancher has to work, do miscellaneous chores and then eat, spend time with the wife and kids and then sleep.

How much time can he devote to killing pestiferous hogs? How much time should he take from necessary work or from sleep to deal with butchering a hog?

Yes! Not everything in our lives is optimized or can be. Sometimes not being wasteful isn't cost effective when it comes to time, mental commitment, and actual expense.
 
I saw a Peta advertisement where they are skinning animals alive in a country that shall remain unnamed. There is an image of a dog that had just been skinned and looks up at the camera..Of all the things I have seen, the haunting look of those eyes, I will probably not forget. To this day it still bothers me and yes I could post the video but in all honesty I would rather spare you the sight.

There is a right and wrong in most things. Is flint wrong in trying to protect property and help recycle back to nature; as many have pointed out it just completes the cycle without undue suffering.

Are the people skinning animals alive wrong and disgusting; in our society it would be a hanging offense for some....Yet "there" it is a normal every day occurrence. What is right for some is totally unacceptable by the standards of others. Everything and everyone dies in the end; just some have a much easier path to their final reward.

Not trying to hi-jack just trying to point out .....differences.... some would think it wrong to intervene and kill anything! For them, if that is the way they want to think and live then go for it Tiger......They should not expect everyone to live by their rules.....

Remember the dark ages where the Europeans did not want to wash and did not even kill lice in their hair? The plague came along and more or less took care of that type thinking. Nature sometimes with or without our help has a way of creating a balance. Pigs are not good for others in their domain and anyone who has watched and seen what they can do would agree. Sorry piggy but to me you are right up there with lice, fleas, rats in a house, and mosquitoes.
 
that's not wasteful. That's disposal. Same as when you throw a dead rat or mouse from a trap into the trash (or over the back fence into the orchard, like I did as a kid).
 
I don't think it's a waste at all. Leaving the carcass for the smaller animals to feed on will bolster the prey animal population as well as help to fertilize local plant growth in a round-about way. I'd guess that with higher numbers of carrion feeders, bugs, and other prey animals about due to the carcass, there would be increased numbers of predators as well. Sounds like effective use of meat and other parts that would otherwise end up truly wasted in a landfill somewhere, or cremated in some disposal facility.
 
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