Is "limp wristing" real or urban legend?

[Hokkmike]

Do you think that "limp wristing" is a real phenomenon affecting auto handgun performance and affecting cycling or is it pretty much a myth?

I have not read any definitive study by any "expert" but have always been told that "limp wristing" can and does cause cycling issues with semi auto pistols.

If you believe it to be real, what are some of the symptoms?

If it is not real where in the heck did it come from and why do people perpetuate the myth?

At this point, I must put myself in the "I don't know" category and wait for the rest of you to shed knowledge in this area.

 

[Headless]

I'm pretty sure it's real... my CS40 has never jammed while i shoot it (~400 rounds so far), but in 60 rounds that two of my friends shot through it it failed to fully return to battery 6 times. Same ammo...i took the gun right after one of my friends had it happen twice in a row and emptied the magazine without note, loaded another 2, emptied without note, gripped only in one hand.
Handed the gun back to him and blam blam...half in battery again. Makes me nervous to carry it and only it on my person...what if i'm injured and don't have a good grip on the gun?

 

[Fumbler]

It is real. It's especially true of lighter handguns (like Glocks).

Have someone shoot a Glock limp wristed. If they hold it loose enough you'll have a malfunction. Usually it's a failure to return to battery.
This is possibly because the frame moves with the slide instead of against the slide. The result is the slide does not move all the way backward and the spring is not loaded all the way. The spring has less "power" to move forward and chamber a round.

Then watch them shoot it with a firm wrist.

I've seen it happen with a Glock 19 and a new shooter and also with a Bersa Thunder 380 and my girlfriend (the Bersa is blowback operated and may be more prone to limp wrist malfunction).

 

[rcmodel]

Yes it is true!
No, it is not a myth!

It is not usually a problem with full-size duty & .22 sporting guns because the mass of the frame & ammo gives plenty of weight for the recoiling slide to push against.

It can get to be a problem with very small & light for caliber guns, because the frames mass cannot resist the recoiling slide, and goes along for the ride.

Short-stroking & ejection problems are usual suspects.


rcmodel

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Can attest, without doubt, that limp-wristing can result in a FTE/ jam. It won't FTF, as firing only requires the trigger to release the sear. But the smaller the autoloading pistol = the shorter the slide travel. The shorter the slide travel = the shorter the recoil spring. The shorter the recoil spring = the tighter "compression cycle/time" the recoil spring must absorb. If a limp hold on the pistol allows for "some" of the rearward traveling recoil momentum (meant to cycle the action) to be absorbed by the hand/arm of the shooter...there can be enough momentum loss as to cause a failure to fully compress the recoil spring. The resulting "short stroke" of the slide can cause an ejection failure or a stovepipe jam.

Yes, limpwristing is real. The easiest cure? A revolver.

 

[Hoppy590]

from a mechanical stand point, yes an unsupported firearm will have dificulty in cycling.

from a pratical stand point. i imagine most incidents of "limp wrist" Malfs are combinations of bad ammo, or mechanical problems

 

[cslinger]

Absolutely and some firearms are more susceptible then others.

One of my tests whenever I buy a new autochucker is to shoot both left and right handed very very loosely and at odd angles to determine the limp wristing threshold. That being said with most quality guns you would have to hold them EXTREMELY loosely to induce a malfunction. As an example I could not induce a malfunction with either a Glock 26 or Walther P99 Compact. Two very small, very light 9mms. I could, however, induce malfunctions all day long with a Smith and Wesson SW99 compact in .40 S&W. Shot fine as long as I had a rock solid hold, anything less then that she would fail.

Chris

 

[jefnvk]

Yep. The times I notice it, is when one of my friends shoots a handgun for the first time. Gun fails to fully load the next round. Tell them to hold on tighter, issue goes away.

What points to it the most to me, is it is always one of the first shots with someone who hasn't shot a handgun before.

 

[trueblue1776]

Yes, it's quite real, just ask a cop or a soldier, somebody who watches new (unwilling sometimes) shooters try to shoot for qualifying score.

 

[Gustav]

I have seen it a few times usually with new or beginning shooters who often have small hands or weak hands or are afraid shooting pistols.

Its usually a polymer framed gun and more often than not someone who is shy and timid and consciously or subconsciously afraid of shooting and holds the pistol with barely any strength or pressure at all.

Having seen it a few times it does happen it is not a legend.

 

[CWL]

Yes it is real. I have witnessed it enough times over the years as well as been the victim to it myself on occasion.

 

[Ala Dan]

Absolutely real, and YES it affects the smooth operation of most semi-
auto pistols~!

 

[ArmedBear]

If you get a gun that is loaded with ammo that barely cycles it, especially if it's an old gun with weak springs, then yes, it's real. I can demonstrate it; I have an ancient 9mm that requires a VERY firm hold or it will jam, especially with light bullets. It's not a myth, and it's not just theoretical.

However, if you're asking if a brand new Glock, 1911, or whatever, loaded with ammo it likes, will misfeed unless you hold it with Kung Fu Grip, it won't. It takes a lot more to jam a well-maintained modern auto than just a slightly loose hold. That's one reason the cops use them now. The design problems have been worked out, and the guns just plain work better than they used to.

That's why some people think that "limp wristing" is a myth. If you've only shot a perfect-condition, modern gun, you probably have never experienced it, no matter how you hold the gun.

 

[rcmodel]

Several years ago, one of our local cops limp wristed a SIG autoloader after getting shot, and it stove-piped.

He was unable to clear it one-handed, and his partner finished the job for him by shooting the suspect.

His SIG worked perfectly with a stiff wrest hold!
Suspect was DRT!


rcmodel

 

[dasmi]

I tried it last time I took my glock out. Held it very loosely, and it jammed.

 

[joffe]

Of course it's real. Nearly all handguns are recoil-operated. This means that their cycling depends on the frame being held in one place while the slide is allowed to cycle. Anyone with a basic grasp of physics and how a handgun operates can see the logic in it.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've seen it several times with the BHP and clones. One woman I know simply could NOT make a BHP work, it jammed every time. Myself and her husband took the same pistol,magazines and ammo and it ran flawlessly. She ended up with a Sig 226 instead of the BHP for that reason.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Real as a heart attack.

Been shooting for over 50 years and it has not changed. Limp wrist= Malfunction in most of your pistols. Does not matter with a revolver though.
Why the revolver is a better deal for weak wristed folks, and especially the female variety who don't shoot much.

 

[Hawk]

I am unable to induce a "limp wrist" malf in my autoloaders. One hand, weak hand, out of position, whatever.

I believe one of the moderators here opined that "limp wrist" actually encompassed a number of shooter related malfs which were clumped under "limp wrist". Not the least common was physically impairing slide movement. This probably is more a matter of sloppy terminology than "mythology".

While "limp-wirst" might be real in the academic sense, 99.9% of the time, when it's invoked by a manufacturer or dealer of a broken pistol, it's a deflection tactic - a simple means of foisting off the responsiblity for providing a functional firearm on a hapless buyer.

So, while acknowledging that "limp wrist" may be real in some cases, it was bogus in the dozen or so cases it was invoked in my presence.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Whoa Hawk, so if I don't have any flat tires on my truck, does that mean they're just a myth invented by Goodyear to "foist" poor rubber compounding? Come on...surely a guy who's been around here for 5 years with 1735 posts has seen the results of limp-wristing first hand!?! How can it POSSIBLY be a 99.9% excuse for a malfunctioning firearm when the condition magically corrects itself immediately when the pistol is handed to an experienced handgunner to clear & run again?

 

[Old Dog]

Hawk stated:

While "limp-wirst" might be real in the academic sense, 99.9% of the time, when it's invoked by a manufacturer or dealer of a broken pistol, it's a deflection tactic - a simple means of foisting off the responsiblity for providing a functional firearm on a hapless buyer.

Well, Hawk, I'm not sure that I agree with you. The question has to be asked when someone complains of malfunctions in a new pistol, because with certain autoloaders, the possibility of shooter-induced problems is quite real. Having dealt by phone with just about every current manufacturer of handguns, I've never had a CS rep pursue the whole limp-wristed thing to the point of insisting that any/all malfunctions were all shooter-induced. But yes, this statement

:"limp wrist" actually encompassed a number of shooter related malfs which were clumped under "limp wrist". Not the least common was physically impairing slide movement. This probably is more a matter of sloppy terminology than "mythology".

is certainly supportable, and assuredly true on a regular basis.

I particularly see limp-wristing happening a lot with 4" barreled and shorter 1911s (Colt Defenders, Officer's ACPs, SA Champions, Kimber Pros, SA Micro-Compacts, Kimber Ultras) and inexperienced shooters, those utilizing poor technique (i.e., "cup and saucer" or one hand) and [physically] weaker shooters...
Hawk also noted that:

I am unable to induce a "limp wrist" malf in my autoloaders. One hand, weak hand, out of position, whatever.

and I would agree here -- depending on the pistol -- for I'm sure most of us own some of the semi-autos that are immune to this problem, primarily due to design characteristics, weight of the the pistol, caliber and ammunition used.

 

[Hawk]

Whoa Hawk, so if I don't have any flat tires on my truck, does that mean they're just a myth invented by Goodyear to "foist" poor rubber compounding? Come on...surely a guy who's been around here for 5 years with 1735 posts has seen the results of limp-wristing first hand!?! How can it POSSIBLY be a 99.9% excuse for a malfunctioning firearm when the condition magically corrects itself immediately when the pistol is handed to an experienced handgunner to clear & run again?

Easy, all the cases that I observed could not be corrected by someone else firing the gun.

If the diagnosis come from a dealer or manufacturer that hasn't seen the gun or has seen it and can't make it run either, it's bogus.

What I'm talking about doesn't go away when somebody else shoots it. But they are nonetheless not inhibited from claiming "limp wrist".

 

[erict]

Most definetely real! I've put well over a couple of thousand rounds through my Glock 27 without one single malfunction whatsoever. I had a friend that was new to shooting try it out and it failed several times in a row (at least 8-10) until I instructed him on how to handle it correctly.

 

[JWarren]

uhm... yeah.. it's real.

When I moved from revolvers to semi-autos, I hung up my Glock often. This was because the light-weight frame does not provide enough mass against the slide's weight.

Once a LEO showed me what I was doing, it never happened again.


It must be real. I still have that Glock 19 (13 years now) and it doesn't jam anymore.


-- John

 

[Noxx]

Real Phenomenon.

My wife had never held or fired a gun before we were married. Her first outings with the 226 were marked by failures at least once per mag.

After some confidence building, she hasn't had a failure in over 5,000 rounds.

There's only one variable in that experience, and it was her weak'n'meek grip on the pistol.