Is my 1858 a lemon?

[crazsog]

I've been reading posts on this forum for a while now, and after hours of searching I decided to ask you guys if you think something's wrong with the 1858 I just received. It's my first cap and ball so I might be wrong, but I feel like this pietta has a timing problem. When I put it on half cock, the cylinder spins the way it's supposed to spin, but if I let go of the hammer right after reaching the half cock position, the cylinder goes back the other way just a tiny bit. Now something else that bothers me a little, I hear 3 clicks when I pull the hammer back slowly. Aren't those guns supposed to only have 2 clicks? And finally, I can't get the cylinder back in while having the gun in half cock position. The "hand" seems to get in the way and I have to keep the hammer below half cock with my thumb to be able to get the cylinder back in. I tried rotation the cylinder to get it to fit but it just won't go back in. I should mention that I just received the gun and I haven't fired it yet, I'm just wondering if I should send it back or if I'm just being paranoid. Here a quick video that'll hopefully be of help to understand my issues : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4JqWIWS6gw
(I forgot to demonstrate the problem i'm having with the cylinder swap in the video, so hopefully my words were clear enough on that issue).

Thanks in advance for the help

 

[Jim K]

OK, first first. When in the half cock position, the cylinder stop is retracted into the frame, but the hand still will keep the cylinder from rotating backward. But when you pull the hammer to half cock, then release it, the hand (which is attached to the hammer but tensioned forward) will try to drag the cylinder backwards.

There should be three clicks. The first is the half cock notch, the second the cylinder stop dropping into the stop notch on the cylinder, and the third is the full cock notch. Sometimes there is a fourth as the cylinder stop drops onto the cylinder before entering a notch, but it is usually not as loud as the others.

It is normal to have trouble reinstalling the cylinder, though usually not as much with a Remington repro as with a Colt, since the cylinder ratchet is in the way with the latter. You might find that turning the cylinder clockwise as you insert it will help to move the hand out of the way.

Jim

 

[Coyote3855]

I don't know about Remingtons, but I was told that Colt and old model Ruger Single Actions should always be full cocked the the hammer lowered rather than letting the hammer down from the half cock position.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

On some 1858's I find it easier to take out/put back the cylinder by pulling back enough on the hammer for the hand to be retracted enough as not to get in the way of the cylinder.

 

[44 Dave]

When ever you pull the hammer back on a single action always take it all the way back before returning it to avoid those bolt scratches on the cylinder. If you are like me and load 6 and lower the hammer in the 'tween notch, on the Remington I look to be sure the notch is right on before I lower the hammer from 1/2 cock.
ps:
did shoot 18 rounds today 5 degrees above the high for the day

 

[tscmmhk]

I have a couple of 1858's and all I can tell you is that when taking the cylinder out or removing the cylinder always rotate the cylinder clockwise as viewed from the back of the cylinder. Also make sure the hammer is at the half cocked position. If you forget to put the hammer in the half cock position you'll probably end up scratching the cylinder up like I did.

Bottom line is I had the same issues you're having but after awhile you'll find that removing and installing the cylinder is real easy.

 

[BHP FAN]

always put the cylinder in from the right, towards the left, and rotate it slightly. clockwise, as you do so.

 

[BowerR64]

If you guys are so worried about scrating it all up why even shoot it?

These are some of the most fun guns and they are so cheap why worry about it its going to get scratched.


There is a learnign curve to these guns ive found and you get better the more you mess around with it.

When the cylinder is out work the action and watch the positions where the bolt drops and where the hand moves.

Like the others said i put mine in from the right side and move it to the left using the tips of my fingers in my left hand. I then work the hammer with my right thumb back and forth till it slips in.

You have to practice with it and you will find the spots where it fits in the best.

Next comes the cylinder pin. This is the same way, you have to wiggle the cylinder with the bolt in the notch and the hammer down on one of the nipples then a little movement of the cylinder helps the cylinder pin slip in. Use the bolt in the notch and the hammer on one of the nipples as a guide.

Keep the cylinder pin/rod clean and foul free it helps.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Yeah.... there's nothing wrong with your Remmie. It needs to break in a little, and so do you. Don't expect a Clint Eastwood smooth cylinder change without some subtle modifications to the revolver and a lot of practice.


Willie

.

 

[crazsog]

Thanks guys. I guess I just need to play with it more and see what works for me, seems like the right thing to do with these guns. I'm also thinking about ordering a set of aftermarket nipples, the no. 11 caps are pretty loose and i've heard that some of them will fit the 11 caps better. All I can get my hands on where I live are the RWS 1075 and 1075 plus, so for now I have to pinch them a little so they don't fall off.

 

[tscmmhk]

In my opinion, the best percussion caps for the Pietta and Uberti Remy are the Remington #10 caps. They seem to fit the best.
The only problem is they are hard to find these days. Part of the ammo shortage I guess.

 

[rcoolbaugh]

I've found that the easiest way for me to install the cylinder is to start with the hammer uncocked, put the cylinder in from the right aligning one of the notches on the cylinder to the stop, then slightly pull back on the hammer to retract the hand while I rotate the cylinder into place - but not to half cocked. I then lightly let the hammer down on the nipple which causes the cylinder to be properly aligned to insert the rod through it. Note that I load on the gun and this is done on an unloaded cylinder.

 

[crazsog]

That's the quickest and easiest way i've found to do it aswell. Back to my original problem, the website I ordered it from recently got the stainless version back in stock. I couldn't resist and exchanged it since it was the finish I wanted originally Here's what it looks like :



Now this one feels better overall, and this 5 1/2 version looks great in stainless. But I still managed to find something that bugs me. The hammer is off-center, I didn't pay close attention to this on the other one I sent back so I have nothing to compare it to. The hammer only seems to rub against the frame a tiny bit on the right side. I've also noticed that it has some play (left to right) when it's uncocked, but not when cocked. Hopefully i'm not being too paranoid, i'm kind of new to C&B revolvers.
Here's a couple pictures to show you the hammer :

 

[BowerR64]

You have to expect that with these. They are reproduction guns and they arnt made by Smith and Wesson

If these were $6-700. guns i might see your point but they arnt.

A copy of the real thing.

You have a nice first gun, you are going to love stainless they are so easy to keep clean. I wish i had a few more of em

 

[goon]

I remember my Remington (Uberti)... learning to get the cylinder back in was, ahem, challenging. It certainly wasn't as easy as Bohannon makes it look.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Sheesh!

What's so hard about popping the cylinder in and out of a Remmie? You put the hammer at half cock, drop the loading lever, pull the pin, and rotate it out to the right into your hand. To put it back in again, you put the hammer at half cock again and rotate the cylinder so that it depresses the hand as it goes in. Easy-peasy. You don't have to monkey around with the hammer or the hand, just leave the hammer at half cock and rotate the cylinder as it goes in or out so that the ratchet teeth push the hand into the frame. You don't have to modify the gun at all. Just practice and soon you will be doing it as quick as Clint.

Yeah, the hammer often leans to one side. These are not custom guns, why do you think they are so cheap?

 

[goon]

Practice helped... but I still never got my speed up to that of Clint Eastwood or Cullen Bohannon. Still, I do regret selling it. It was beautiful, way too much fun, and it always drew a crowd at the range.

 

[BowerR64]

Thats a lemon too, how much do you want for it?

 

[rcflint]

Second try to post this...

Two things contribute to the tilted hammer, both adjustable.

Piettas often (usually?) have a loose fit between the hammer pivot screw and the hammer's hole. This allows the hammer to tilt too far sideways. As I have a lathe, I made a new screw, oversized to close the gap in the hammer, but it will still go into the frame, and control the hammer's position closer to vertical, at least it no longer rubs the frame opening.

Item two is the bolt. If the wings are spread too far, there is too much pressure against the frame, which pushes the hammer, and as it is above the pivot, it tilts the hammer. The wings should be no less than parallel. If closing the gap causes an early bolt drop due to falling off the cam, you may have to live with the excessive side pressure.

Anyway, that cured mine.

 

[Kernel]

A stainless 5-1/2" 1858. Sweet!!

 

[crazsog]

Thanks guys, I just wanted to make sure this wouldn't be a problem in the long run. I'm taking it to the range this saturday, we'll see how it shoots.

rcflint, I might try and make a new screw aswell in the future then.

Item two is the bolt. If the wings are spread too far, there is too much pressure against the frame, which pushes the hammer, and as it is above the pivot, it tilts the hammer. The wings should be no less than parallel.

Don't you mean perpendicular? I was sure the bolt was that 'L' looking part.

 

[rcflint]

bolt

When referring to the "wings" I mean the parallel springs behind the vertical bolt head. The hammer side "wing" rides the hammer's cam and is lifted when you cock the hammer, pulling the bolt head downward out of the cylinder notch. When the hammer reaches full cock, the bolt falls off the cam and drops, snapping the bolt head upward into (hopefully) the cylinder notch.

If there is too much spread between the rear wings, there is too much pressure between the frame and the hammer, which will tilt the hammer if the pivot screw is too loose a fit in the hammer.

If there is too little (less than parallel, or even a little over, depending on the width of the frame's channel), the bolt can fall off the cam early and snap into the cylinder too early and mark or peen the cylinder and notch.