Is Palmetto State Armory legitimate?

[Outlaw75]

Might be because they are BUSY.....................rest assured, you are NOT their only customer................amazes me sometimes how folks expect small operations to have the personnel of LL Bean or Cabelas..............

Cabelas isn't all that great either. I went in to the local store looking for a Lee Reloading Stand, they didn't have it in the store but said they could get it from their warehouse in 10 days. I had one sitting on my porch in 3 days Amazon.

 

[mljdeckard]

Was it a charge or a pre-authorization? Companies are not allowed to charge until they ship. But they will likely put a pre-auth on your card at the time the order is placed. This shows up on your statement as a "pending charge". If they don't ship right away, this usually falls off your card after a few days, and when it ships, they charge the full amount.

 

[gearhead]

A "help wanted" sign could go a long way to solving that problem, and the extra business they'd pick up from not irritating a bunch of potential customers would surely pay for that minimum wage mail room attendant.

Keep in mind, this isn't a used car lot or even Amazon. This is a company with a manufacturer's FFL and an SOT to handle NFA items so every employee has to pass a full FBI background check and they have to maintain a pretty high level of security. You can't just hire some temps or call the county Employment Office to send over a couple of guys to help with shipping when you get more than three or four days behind.

 

[thefish]

Bought lots of stuff from PSA, and continue to do so. Their ship times can be slow, but the price is worth the wait.

As far as charging my card, I don't see the problem weather they charge me at time of shipment or when the order is placed. I've committed to spend the money, what difference does it make really? They are always super busy and them charging my card assures my order won't get dropped and will ship. I actually can't think of too many companies that don't charge you up front before delivering product in general. I order tens of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise monthly, sometimes even weekly, and I always get charged at time or order.

PSA is good to go, although their constant sales and free shipping deals are killing my wallet.

 

[Oceanbob]

They are a good company. And they are much larger than 2 years ago.

They recently built a new factory/warehouse for 5 million dollars. They run 25 barrel making machines building tons of AR and other barrels. They manufacture AR parts and barrels for other well known AR companies. Name brand stuff.

They deal in rare legal areas of manufacturing and NFA stuff that does require specialized background checks and trusted employees.

They test fire every upper they build before shipping. They have such good deals because they are a prime source and build a lot of the parts from scratch.

Yeah, I bought at least 9 uppers, plenty of LPKs and a bunch of other stuff over the last few years. I have 5 kids and I built an AR for each of them. (You never know the future...)

I waited several weeks, and they arrived safely. I did miss work because they require an adult signature but, hey.....it was worth it. Every upper ran perfect and still run after (my oldest) is up to 4000 rounds. (Using dads Dillon ..)

Back after Sandy Hook things got backed up with deliveries. I had a parts kit with stock and buffer tube on order just before that incident.
That was in December. I got my order in February. I was busy with life and placed the box in my reloading room....in September I decided to build up another rifle and finally opened the box. The LPK was missing several small parts related to the magazine catch and button.....even the springs were missing. I emailed PSA and the next day a Baggie with the parts were mailed to my home.

That was prompt and very nice. Good company in my mind folks.

Be well

Bob

 

[bigride]

I remember when some companies routinely took 4 to 6 weeks to ship products. If I can save money, I can wait. I investigated PSA before I ordered anything. I knew that shipping delays were common. The savings was worth it. Do your homework before giving out your credit card info.

 

[McAngus]

I am sure others have said this but I will chime in. PSA is legit. They take forever to ship. But they are legit and I never had a problem.

FYI they have some INSANE deals sometimes. Check the website regularly. The thing I hate about them is that they don't highlight a super deal, they are just buried among the other so called "deals".

 

[coloradokevin]

Yeah, I'll admit that I've waited for some REALLY good deals with other sites before, and I did notice that it looks like Palmetto has some of those deals from time to time. I'm irritated in this instance because I bought a regularly priced product I could have picked up anywhere, and they seem to be running about 1.5 weeks behind their estimated ship time.

But, I get it… for a good deal on something I didn't need quickly, I'd wait too. But, I figure the question was worth asking, since I've never dealt with these guys before. In this day and age it is unusual to find a company that doesn't ship an in-stock product within 48 hours of an order being placed, and it's also unusual to find a company that charges you before shipping (admittedly, these disclosures are provided within the site if you dig for them, though the shipping has taken much longer than they stated).

I'm not saying that I would or would not buy from them again, but the only way I really see myself placing another order is if it is for something that I'm getting for a significantly better price than I'd pay elsewhere.

Was it a charge or a pre-authorization?

A charge.

Keep in mind, this isn't a used car lot or even Amazon. This is a company with a manufacturer's FFL and an SOT to handle NFA items so every employee has to pass a full FBI background check and they have to maintain a pretty high level of security. You can't just hire some temps or call the county Employment Office to send over a couple of guys to help with shipping when you get more than three or four days behind.

You bring up an interesting point about the background check aspect. But, it's not too hard to find someone interested in guns who can pass a background check. After all, gun stores are filled with these enthusiasts on a daily basis, and some almost certainly need a job!

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

Bought lots of stuff from PSA, and continue to do so. Their ship times can be slow, but the price is worth the wait.

As far as charging my card, I don't see the problem weather they charge me at time of shipment or when the order is placed. I've committed to spend the money, what difference does it make really? They are always super busy and them charging my card assures my order won't get dropped and will ship. I actually can't think of too many companies that don't charge you up front before delivering product in general. I order tens of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise monthly, sometimes even weekly, and I always get charged at time or order.

PSA is good to go, although their constant sales and free shipping deals are killing my wallet.

The issue is not whether the buyer incurs a wait. I'm rarely in that much of a hurry if I can trade time for a good price. And there's no question but that they are a 'real' company with lots of stock and services.
But it really does matter that they can hold your money before they ship your product. That is interest that they accrue on your money instead of you realizing that gain. Now I understand that these days interest rates are so low that it may not make much difference to an individual. But when you are carrying out this practice with millions of dollars, it becomes material.
By example the prime interest rate is the amount of interest that one bank charges another for an overnight inter-bank loan. That interest rate is typically the lowest rate in the country (and typically the basis for all other interest rates). Yet banks make billions on this low rate on overnight loans.
There is both a real financial and a matter of principle over this matter. I'm just expressing my opinion and providing the reasoning behind it, and choose to vote with my wallet.
I will also add that I recently found an RBCS Turret Press for sale over at PSA so I ordered one. When it arrived (three weeks later) I found it had a rusted primer safety tube and a broken shell holder retainer clip. I notified them of such, and they basically told me to pound sand and deal with RCBS. I was not impressed. BTW, RCBS has been perfect in their customer support. None of this is related to PSA financial practices, but it doesn't improve my view of them.
B

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

If one was saving $300 or $3000 dollars for a high demand product I can see waiting to ship but for the $3 that the OP has saved you should receive the product in a reasonable time frame. If I can order a part from Brownells, a large company that probably receives hundreds of orders per day if not in the thousands, and have the item on my door step in 3-5 days. Instead PSA ships in 3 weeks!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if they are a one man shop making the best product around if are that busy they really should get more help. There is a point when your business has grown and to continue to grow to something like Brownells you'll have to hire more help.

Don't let the NFA thing fool you either. My favorite little toy store is a SOT (Class 3 NFA) dealer and they have no problem getting good help or shipping stuff in a timely manner..... The NFA background check isn't anything super special. If you can pass a background check to buy a handgun you can pass the NFA background check too they just add extra steps to ensure your identity and make it difficult so not everyone goes out and buys evil NFA stuff.

It seems to me that someone in charge at PSA is just being cheap and would rather hold on to your money for a few weeks, gaining a little interest at the bank, than spend a little more overhead to take care of the customer and provide good service. They may make a good product and it may make it to you eventually but it's not good customer service to make someone wait that long for an in stock item!

 

[TennJed]

I think shipping times should be clear up front, but as long as I know that it is going to take 2 weeks to ship I rather them go ahead and charge my card immediately. It makes it so much easier to balance my checkbook if things clear quickly and are not outstanding. I will not order things on back-order if they wait an unknown time period to charge my card. I can not stand having outstanding items on my checking account

The issue is not whether the buyer incurs a wait. I'm rarely in that much of a hurry if I can trade time for a good price. And there's no question but that they are a 'real' company with lots of stock and services.
But it really does matter that they can hold your money before they ship your product. That is interest that they accrue on your money instead of you realizing that gain. Now I understand that these days interest rates are so low that it may not make much difference to an individual. But when you are carrying out this practice with millions of dollars, it becomes material.
By example the prime interest rate is the amount of interest that one bank charges another for an overnight inter-bank loan. That interest rate is typically the lowest rate in the country (and typically the basis for all other interest rates). Yet banks make billions on this low rate on overnight loans.
There is both a real financial and a matter of principle over this matter. I'm just expressing my opinion and providing the reasoning behind it, and choose to vote with my wallet.
I will also add that I recently found a RBCS Turret Press for sale over at PSA so I ordered one. When it arrived (three weeks later) I found it had a rusted primer safety tube and a broke shell holder retainer clip. I notified them of such, and they basically told me to pound sand and deal with RCBS. I was not impressed. BTW, RCBS has been perfect in their customer support. None of this is related to PSA fiduciary behavior, but it doesn't improve my view of them.
B

If the company is upfront on charging and shipping times, then I view the interest that they make as just another way for them to earn money......and keep cost down to me. A $500 order for me is not going to earn enough interest for me to care. I rather it clear my account so I can balance up, but yes all the $500 orders combined will make a difference to them. Good for them, because it should be reflected in the price I pay.

If a company wants to wait to 2 weeks to charge my card until it ships, and I have to pay a higher price for that item, I will vote with my wallet too and pay for a cheaper item and have them bill immediately. If the item cost $500 at PSA and they bill immediately and wait 3 weeks I am out about $0.57 in lost interest if I am lucky enough to get 2% on my DDA account. If the item cost $505 at Joe's Guns, but they wait 3 weeks to ship, it cost me $4.43 more.

This may be one reason why PSA has good prices.

Was it a charge or a pre-authorization? Companies are not allowed to charge until they ship. But they will likely put a pre-auth on your card at the time the order is placed. This shows up on your statement as a "pending charge". If they don't ship right away, this usually falls off your card after a few days, and when it ships, they charge the full amount.

You are correct in that Visa and Mastercard "does not allow" them to charge before it is shipped, but it is actually not illegal for them to. The Fair Credit Billing Act does not address if it is legal for a company to charge you before shipping the product. Instead, it makes it illegal to not ship within advertised time period (or 30 days if no expected shipping date is mentioned in the agreement). Again it is against Visa and Mastercard's policy and it shouldn't happen, but it does. And it happens fairly often since Visa really doesn't have any authority to fine or hurt the company for it.

I just checked their site and under the terms and conditions it says they DO charge immediately. Again, it is not illegal. Form their site

"All payments are processed immediately upon placement of order."

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/customer-service

 

[rhinoh]

Companies are not allowed to charge until they ship.

Incorrect.
Many companies do this, in fact I'd say more do than don't IME.

Now as far as the 30 day shipping "rule"- I've had a couple of times PSA violated this- no contact was ever initiated by them to address the delay, one was 42 days! The FTC rule is -
"If, after taking the customer’s order, you learn that you cannot ship within the time you stated or within 30 days, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delayed shipment."
Quote above from- https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/do...mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule.pdf

I am sure though, if I had wanted to, I could have asked them to cancel the order, but the price was so good I just waited. Not happily but I waited.

 

[dragon813gt]

They are worth the wait if you're getting a deal. My first order I had in a week. My last order for three LPKs took a long time. But they came w/ ACT triggers so the deal was well worth the wait.

I you want AR parts immediately then order from Primary Arms. I've had delayed shipments from Brownells and Midway so it's not unheard of. Even Amazon has dropped the ball on occasion.

I don't mind PSA charging my card immediately because I know in stock means they have it. There are a lot of places that show in stock but they don't have it.

 

[Tirod]

When internet shopping, due diligence to research and investigate the vendor is appropriate, so that a buyer can adjust their expectations to the reality of what will likely happen.

As said, there are plenty of posts where a consumer would have preferred knowing that PSA has suffered from increasing demand beyond their capacity to ship the next day. Many of us who frequent AR boards have been aware of this and we choose to continue trading with them. It's only an issue to those who didn't do their part up front to find out.

As for hiring the gunstore groupies with no life who hang around the counter, nope. Knowledgeable and experienced firearms assemblers, armorers, machine operators, and shooters are in high demand by other employers. Add the .gov background check and the lack any large scale vocational education in our schools and the pool is extremely small. Most of working public is now service oriented, not skills based, and the ratio is increasingly devoid of any machinists and factory workers with skills.

No doubt ANY local factory HR rep would be more than willing to explain their daily headache trying to find competent help. The stagnation of wages at the $10-15 level has a lot to do with it as that classification of job skills has received no increases in ten years. In fact, the next step up, entry level middle class employment, has been rapidly shrinking even faster.

PSA, among many others, has their hands full responding to high consumer demand from the public who five years ago never considered building their own AR. It simply wasn't done - but tell the American Consumer he won't be allowed to have something and they react, sometimes out of all proportion to the actual situation.

Three panics in 6 years. It's a whipsaw for those attempting to schedule production, businesses that hire and lay off repeatedly in that short a time frame are largely shunned by potential employees because they are looking for long term security. And PSA cannot just hire day labor right off the street.

If people are complaining about PSA it's a good thing - good prices, still in business from good practices and obviously not a fly by night or a venture that assembles orders to meet a minimum from the actual maker. Plenty of those out there, due diligence will bring those out.

 

[mgkdrgn]

They are "legit", in that they physically do exist, in multiple locations.

However, from personal experience I will never do business with them again, nor will I recommend them to anyone else.

I don't think they are "evil", just dumber than a bag of hammers. This is from top management on down.

 

[MIL-DOT]

.....I placed an order with Palmetto State Armory a week ago....... but still hadn't shipped the item as of yesterday......and I stayed on hold for about twenty minutes before a live person answered. The rep I talked to assured me that my parts are "in stock" in their warehouse, and told me that it should be shipped by the end of this week, or early next week.

It's because of countless stories like this that I have not, and will not, deal with these jerk-offs. This is a COMPLETELY unacceptable level of service, regardless of the excuse, or how good their deals admitedly can be. If buisness is that good, then hire a couple kids just outa high school for minimum wage, lots of folks would love to work for an otherwise cool AR15 builder.
But to tell a customer that's already waited a week, that his order will ship "by the end of the week...or maybe next week" is just plain ridiculous. Screw PSA, they can keep their 'deals' as far as I'm concerned.

 

[12many]

I feel the same to an extent. It is a free country and everyone gets to do what they want. I choose to not order from PSA because there are numerous other business that provide better customer service. Why deal with the possible headache if there are other options.

 

[WC145]

I buy from them, can't beat their sale prices as long as you're not in a hurry. Recently ordered 500rds of 5.7x28 VMax, $19.99bx - best price anywhere, took about 2 1/2 weeks to get here. Ordered a new Colt Commander $599.99 in December, just before christmas, took right at 4 weeks.

 

[atblis]

I think they've knowingly dumped defective products on the market and plead ignorance. That in my book makes them not legit.

 

[ny32182]

They are not the size of Cabellas, etc, but have at least two large retail locations and the very significant online business, and are certainly not a "small" operation.

They have the best prices, and will ship your stuff at some point. If you gotta-have-it-tomorrow, order from Midway or someplace like that and pay more.

 

[coloradokevin]

As for hiring the gunstore groupies with no life who hang around the counter, nope. Knowledgeable and experienced firearms assemblers, armorers, machine operators, and shooters are in high demand by other employers. Add the .gov background check and the lack any large scale vocational education in our schools and the pool is extremely small. Most of working public is now service oriented, not skills based, and the ratio is increasingly devoid of any machinists and factory workers with skills.

Sure, knowledgeable and experienced folks with the skills you mentioned are in high demand. But, you don't need those skills to be hired as a warehouse employee performing the tasks of a mail room clerk… and that appears to be what PSA really needs at this point!

And, once again, the background check is a non-issue. Even before I got into LE, my prior three jobs all required a background check. My spouse works in oil/gas, and gets checked more frequently than I do in LE. Every person who ever buys a gun at a gun store can pass the background check. So, there are plenty of non-criminals out there looking for jobs!

I think they've knowingly dumped defective products on the market and plead ignorance. That in my book makes them not legit.

I've seen a few posts like this now, and I'm hoping that's not the case. I'll certainly let you guys know if my products arrive intact and as expected!



In some ways I feel like we've become so accustomed to bad service in this industry that we simply don't demand better when we should… panic buying practices have routinely put products out of stock, on long backorder waits, and created wild fluctuations in price.

Personally, I'm not satisfied to essentially let a dime of savings hold up a dollar of benefit, but clearly this is an issue that a lot of folks are split on. There are a lot of small companies in this industry that have experienced remarkable growth in the past few years. But, many of those companies have remembered that it is their customers who have grown their business!

I try not to complain about companies without cause, and in the past I've written glowing reviews of other companies I've dealt with in this industry (ex: I have nothing but praise for places like TAB Gear and Mile High Shooting). For now I guess I'll just play the PSA waiting game.

 

[strambo]

I ordered a LPK and BCG ~3 weeks ago, just got it. I don't care because they have great prices for good quality stuff, I have done business with them in the past multiple times w/o issue, and I'm patient (for a good deal).

 

[MIL-DOT]

By the way, I ordered a couple Pmags this past Monday morning, had a shipping confirmation e-mail w/ tracking number 2 hours later, and had the mags in my mailbox at noon TODAY!!! That's 48 hours from Louisianna to Georgia, for $5 shipping !! The company is called Bayou Tactical. I was not familiar with them, and what little I could find on them seemed indicate they always shipped quickly, which is specifically why I went with them over some other operations with good prices on Pmags.
Operations that are ridiculously slow to ship always grind my gears, it's one of my primary factors in decided who to order from, and that's a big reason I don't order from BudsGunShop or Amazon any more. It's also a big reason i really like ordering stuff on Ebay, because the sellers are so desperately concerned with getting a positive feedback, they'll often have you a tracking number within an hour of ordering, even if you ordered at 11:00 p.m.
So, it ain't that hard.

 

[rhinoh]

I don't mind PSA charging my card immediately because I know in stock means they have it. There are a lot of places that show in stock but they don't have it.

You've just been lucky!
I've twice recently had PSA orders held up because something wasn't in stock that showed it was.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Personally, I'd prefer I am charged at time of order, and then given the option of a refund if the item is not in stock.

DS Arms does an authorization charge, but will not actually debit the account if the item is out of stock. They will, however, hit your card whenever the item becomes available. This can really suck a few months down the road, when they suddenly bill you for a $400 or $500 order. Not all of us keep healthy balances in bank accounts at all times.

That is one of the things I've also really come to like about PSA; their site is live inventory. The inventory is adjusted as orders are placed, not when shipped or when the bean counters feel like it.

I've twice recently had PSA orders held up because something wasn't in stock that showed it was.

As I was just saying, PSA uses live inventory. Mistakes can happen, but this is the first I've heard of it with their system. Screw ups with what actually ships, on the other hand, do occur, but of my friends who have had that happen with PSA, the error was fixed immediately. All of them had the missing or incorrect parts in their hands within a week, even if the CS person they dealt with was gruff.