Is "Pet Load" a valid concept?

[Howa 9700]

So basis of this question..........there are many rifles sold with MOA guarantees, all predicated on use of some form of factory ammo. I think at least a few of them specify which ammo specifically.

Factory ammo is all going to be loaded to SAMMI specs, so is not custom to any gun. Shoot that and there has been no rifle specific load workup at all, yet that ammo can achieve good results. Some guns shoot .5 MOA or better with it. There are guys who claim that good rifles should shoot at least 1 MOA or better with factory ammo. If it won't do that, something is wrong with the gun.

So all that being the case, is the whole load development process misguided? Why not simply cut to the chase and develop a single load that everyone can use and be done with it? A load that duplicates factory ammo. Same case, primer, powder (or similar), bullet, bullet seating depth, etc. In short, a pet load. Something to duplicate and replace factory level ammo and be done with it?

 

[Howa 9700]

BTW, isn't the "pet load" concept what is used in shotshells?

 

[Bfh_auto]

You can do that if you're goal isn't the most accurate you can find for your rifle.
Use a seating depth that won't hit the lands in the shortest chamber and do an OCW test. It will be safe in any safe gun. But it won't be the most accurate in every one.
Generally a flat based bullet works best for this idea.
I have a pet load in 30-30. It's a 150 with 29.5 of IMR 3031. But I use Leverevolution powder in my wife's. It's as accurate with more velocity. But I have not tried it in enough rifles.

 

[Rule3]

Only re loaders talk about pet loads and obsess with accuracy to the Nth degree,

How many millions of non reloaders shoot factory ammo of all calibers and types and manage to hit what the are aiming at. ?
Sure, hunting accuracy is not the same as bench rest and advanced competition. I am sure the top shooters in their field could do very well with off the shelf ammo,

 

[Howa 9700]

Guess I should have stated that as well. Premise is not ammo for advanced target shooting. Plain, Jane, day in, day out hunting or plinking ammo that simply duplicates factory level ammo for the bullet being used.

 

[derek45]

"pet load" = "Favorite load"

 

[.38 Special]

For my money, a "pet load" is one that has tended to work well in a variety of guns. Something like "xx grains of xxx powder with an xx bullet has always worked well in my .270s, so that's what I'll try first in my new Kimber."

It's not a guarantee that it will be the best load in a particular gun, or even that it won't be a complete dog in a particular gun. It's just a good place to start, and often will end up being a satisfactory end point as well.

Now, practically speaking, that particular "pet load" really could be all that is needed for nearly everyone. Certainly the overwhelming majority of hunters would have their needs met by a one MOA rifle, and I'm sure that hunters who reload just one or two calibers for just one or two rifles, just for the purpose of hunting and practice for hunting, can and do get along just fine with one or two "pet loads".

But how many people like that do you know? I can't think of any, myself. The people who own a rifle just for hunting almost universally buy a couple of boxes of factory ammo and call it done. The handloaders - even those who call themselves primarily hunters - are constantly trying out new loads, ostensibly to "improve" their hunting, but really just because they enjoy it.

 

[Howa 9700]

For my money, a "pet load" is one that has tended to work well in a variety of guns. Something like "xx grains of xxx powder with an xx bullet has always worked well in my .270s, so that's what I'll try first in my new Kimber."

It's not a guarantee that it will be the best load in a particular gun, or even that it won't be a complete dog in a particular gun. It's just a good place to start, and often will end up being a satisfactory end point as well.

That is stating it much better than I have, but that is the concept. Not only does it work in your rifles, but most other rifles as well. Duplication of a factory load that works. They are out there.

 

[Howa 9700]

BTW, I have posted this group several times, but background was I was going over a thread on a different forum (sorry guys, I strayed) and ran across mention of such a load using Varget in 308. Mention was it was a load that seemed to always work well in 308, and if a gun wouldn't shoot it well, look at the gun. Load was near, but slightly below max load, so put together 5 rounds and shot em. The beginning and end of my load development for that bullet.

 

[wbm]

Is "Pet Load" a valid concept?

Yes.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So basis of this question..........there are many rifles sold with MOA guarantees, all predicated on use of some form of factory ammo. I think at least a few of them specify which ammo specifically.

Factory ammo is all going to be loaded to SAMMI specs, so is not custom to any gun. Shoot that and there has been no rifle specific load workup at all, yet that ammo can achieve good results. Some guns shoot .5 MOA or better with it. There are guys who claim that good rifles should shoot at least 1 MOA or better with factory ammo. If it won't do that, something is wrong with the gun.

So all that being the case, is the whole load development process misguided? Why not simply cut to the chase and develop a single load that everyone can use and be done with it? A load that duplicates factory ammo. Same case, primer, powder (or similar), bullet, bullet seating depth, etc. In short, a pet load. Something to duplicate and replace factory level ammo and be done with it?

There are engines of any given size... and then there are blue printed and balanced engines. And high performance engines of every stripe under the sun. And fuels for them all.

I can get by with pretty much any factory engine. But what if I want more performance?

No different than tuning a gun/ammunition to get the performance one wants.

 

[jmorris]

Factory ammo is all going to be loaded to SAMMI specs, so is not custom to any gun. Shoot that and there has been no rifle specific load workup at all, yet that ammo can achieve good results.

It’s obvious that some factory ammunition is going to shoot better than others and what may be perfect for one gun might not be so great in another. Picking between different brands or even offerings from the same manufacturer, then becomes the same thing as trying different loads you put together.

If you read the fine print on accuracy guarantee’s there is generally a stipulation like “premium factory ammunition” because they understand “factory” doesn’t necessarily equal “great” or even “good”.

 

[LiveLife]

Is "Pet Load" a valid concept? ... There are guys who claim that good rifles should shoot at least 1 MOA or better with factory ammo. If it won't do that, something is wrong with the gun.

So all that being the case, is the whole load development process misguided? Why not simply cut to the chase and develop a single load that everyone can use and be done with it? A load that duplicates factory ammo. Same case, primer, powder (or similar), bullet, bullet seating depth, etc. In short, a pet load. Something to duplicate and replace factory level ammo and be done with it?

Even though you isolate and remove as many reloading variables as possible to produce very consistent loads, there are shooting variables such as different barrel lengths, materials, profile (thick/thin) and twist rate etc. to change barrel harmonics/whip so bullet can exit the muzzle at different points of the harmonics/whip/timing using the same load.

FWIW, these are "pet loads" for these 1000 yard match shooters (Be patient, archived pages load slow) - https://web.archive.org/web/2015031.../01/reloading-western-shooters-pet-loads.html

Enjoy!

 

[kalielkslayer]

I think.38 special nailed it!

I have accurate loads for all of my hunting rifles. For the .280 and 7-08, I have 2; 1 with a premium bullet for elk (Barnes) and 1 with a Hornady SST for antelope and small deer. But I wouldn’t consider any of them a pet load.

A couple months ago I was at the range shooting a ladder in my 22-250. A friend handed me 2 of his 53 gr Speer loads. He said they shoot well in every gun he’s tried it in. Those 2 bullets were 1 oblong hole at 100 yards. I would consider that a “pet load.”

PS: His load’s didn’t help me. It re-inspired my confidence in the gun but I’m trying to get the gun to shoot one hole groups with a monolithic because of the state I live in.

 

[film495]

for most people, a load what matches a factory round is good. think there are some people who have done it and the data is out there. for a lot of reloaders, you can do what you want and customize, and there are people who claim to do better than factory accuracy. I shoot a mouse fart .38 Special in a Model 10 with 4" barrel, like 3.5 grains of Win 231 over a 158 grain LSWC. Can't buy it, but it is my pet load I guess. I just like that amount of recoil in that firearm for basic target practice, not even about accuracy.

 

[21H40]

BTW, isn't the "pet load" concept what is used in shotshells?

TBH I opened this thread expecting to see a "what caliber for gerbils" discussion

It seems like the real question should be "Is reloading for reloading's sake enough when factory ammo works so well?"
I think there is real lack of appreciation for how well factory ammo works anymore. Even in the 90's it was rare to hear about factory ammunition and un-smithed rifles meeting the MOA standard. Now that seems to be a standard every $500 bolt action can meet

 

[Bfh_auto]

TBH I opened this thread expecting to see a "what caliber for gerbils" discussion

It seems like the real question should be "Is reloading for reloading's sake enough when factory ammo works so well?"
I think there is real lack of appreciation for how well factory ammo works anymore. Even in the 90's it was rare to hear about factory ammunition and un-smithed rifles meeting the MOA standard. Now that seems to be a standard every $500 bolt action can meet

Manufacturing has come a long way.
So has pressure testing, bullet design, etc.
IMI 77 RAZORCORE is the same accuracy as my hand loads. I lose a little velocity with it. But I got 500 on sale for less than it cost me to load mine. So I'm running factory till it runs out. Many coyotes and a few deer have died to those factory loads.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Ken Waters wrote a book/manual on “Pet Loads” .
I’ve found that through the years his recommendations are usually close to “spot on”.
Certain combinations seem to just work. Not all cartridges and/or rifles lend themselves to this, but there are trends.

All of my 5 .30/06 rifles equally shoot well with a 155gr Hornady A-max at 3.30” over 48.0gr of H4895. It’s my “match” load for the M1’s. My MkX Mauser and Colt Lt Rifle (production version of Mel Forbes New Ultra Light Arms long action) will shoot “bug holes” with it.

Ken Waters load for the .358win was “the” load for my BLR-81. Most groups with most combinations including factory were 3-5” @100yds from a rest. After reading a John Barsness article in “Handloader” magazine I researched the load and found it to be 48.0gr of H4895 under a Hornady 200gr Spt.
Voila! Sub 1.5” 3-shots @100yds. It’s all I have loaded except for a few Winchester factory 200gr Silver Tips..
Only thing wrong with the rifle is that’s it’s too pretty to take hunting! and a long heavy trigger....

 

[AJC1]

The cheat code is barrel and bullet. If you control those two your already doing good.

 

[Howa 9700]

Here is another example from a year ago......one I'm not entirely proud of, but is what it is. Dad's old 270. No factory ammo to be had. Deer season coming on. Had only started loading and had done some load ladders and decided 58 grains of H4831sc was what I wanted to try. Loaded 4 more rounds to test, and with limited time and dark settling in, wind blowing about 20 MPH from left to right, put this target up at 125 yards, and using a large round hay bale as my rest, let fly. The flyer was on me. I flinched. Take that out and the remaining group is not too bad. Move it right an inch, down and inch and that rifle would hunt.



So here was my Dad's load.......about 45 years before. Same gun even same weight of Hornady bullet. Didn't find that until afterwards. His would have been IMR 4831.



I burned thru a lot of primers, powder and bullets (rejected several other load ladders) to wind up in almost the same place. If there are known loads that just seem to work, why not start with those before re-inventing the wheel?

 

[AJC1]

Here is another example from a year ago......one I'm not entirely proud of, but is what it is. Dad's old 270. No factory ammo to be had. Deer season coming on. Had only started loading and had done some load ladders and decided 58 grains of H4831sc was what I wanted to try. Loaded 4 more rounds to test, and with limited time and dark settling in, wind blowing about 20 MPH from left to right, put this target up at 125 yards, and using a large round hay bale as my rest, let fly. The flyer was on me. I flinched. Take that out and the remaining group is not too bad. Move it right an inch, down and inch and that rifle would hunt.

View attachment 1122334

So here was my Dad's load.......about 45 years before. Same gun even same weight of Hornady bullet. Didn't find that until afterwards. His would have been IMR 4831.

View attachment 1122335

I burned thru a lot of primers, powder and bullets (rejected several other load ladders) to wind up in almost the same place. If there are known loads that just seem to work, why not start with those before re-inventing the wheel?

There are many loads listed in manuals as most accurate. Your advantage was that dad worked it up in your gun. There are an almost infinite number of combinations that are very accurate. If searching for the most accurate you will likely burn out the barrel first. I would bet every powder manufacturer makes a powder that is a perfect fit. Can't say the same for every bullet manufacturer.

 

[Bfh_auto]

The cheat code is barrel and bullet. If you control those two your already doing good.

So what are your preferred bullets?
Edited. Not sure what happened to what I wrote.

Here is another example from a year ago......one I'm not entirely proud of, but is what it is. Dad's old 270. No factory ammo to be had. Deer season coming on. Had only started loading and had done some load ladders and decided 58 grains of H4831sc was what I wanted to try. Loaded 4 more rounds to test, and with limited time and dark settling in, wind blowing about 20 MPH from left to right, put this target up at 125 yards, and using a large round hay bale as my rest, let fly. The flyer was on me. I flinched. Take that out and the remaining group is not too bad. Move it right an inch, down and inch and that rifle would hunt.

View attachment 1122334

So here was my Dad's load.......about 45 years before. Same gun even same weight of Hornady bullet. Didn't find that until afterwards. His would have been IMR 4831.

View attachment 1122335

I burned thru a lot of primers, powder and bullets (rejected several other load ladders) to wind up in almost the same place. If there are known loads that just seem to work, why not start with those before re-inventing the wheel?

That makes sense. H4831 is slightly slower than IMR in my experience. You just matched the velocity that gun likes.
When it's a time crunch. I'll test starting with known loads. In 223, 24.5-25.5 for 55gr seemed to be everyone's favorite load. I tried 25.0 since I had used h4895 in the past with that gun and it was in limits. It ran between .75&1" I loaded every 55 SP I had and called it a day.

 

[AK Hunter]

It's not really a "pet load" it's more like a load I have proven to do what I need, so I could call it a favorite load. I have different loads that do different thing out of my many guns but I won't call them pet loads.

 

[Howa 9700]

Actually, Dad and I got to almost the same place, but independent of each other. I didn't find his notes until I had already finished my load workup. But we did use different 4831 powders. Don't think the H version was even around 45 years ago.

BTW, I still have his old reloading manual, a Lyman 45th. In addition to other things, that manual often includes a "Duplicates Factory Ammo Load" out of the grid. It appears at the bottom of the load table. Back then, the "Duplicates" powder for a 130 grain jacketed bullet in 270 Win was 55.5 grains IMR 4350. Just found that now, as I thought he may have got his 4831 load from there. Don't remember now where I got the idea, but I also loaded 55.0 grains IMR 4350 and fired a 4 shot group that was about .75 MOA, with 3 holes touching. No load workup for that powder prior to or past that.

 

[AJC1]

So what are your preferred bullets?
Edited. Not sure what happened to what I wrote.

That makes sense. H4831 is slightly slower than IMR in my experience. You just matched the velocity that gun likes.
When it's a time crunch. I'll test starting with known loads. In 223, 24.5-25.5 for 55gr seemed to be everyone's favorite load. I tried 25.0 since I had used h4895 in the past with that gun and it was in limits. It ran between .75&1" I loaded every 55 SP I had and called it a day.

Hornaday eldm, Sierra smk, and berger juggernaut, and lapua scanners all do just fine.