is pump action shotgun really better than semi-auto action shotgun?
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HMMurdock
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Thanks, donkee --I'm honored 
And, of course, use whatever works best for you! --But I've yet to meet a newbie that a semi shotty worked better for-- at least in my personal experience. It's like training a newbie on a 1911 instead of a Glock or a Revolver. It's easiest to learn the principlals on the simpler designs.
I also borrowed a semi-auto at a 3-gun match and she jammed because of the light loads he himself gave me to use in it. And they werent even incredibly light loads! Another thing that bothers me thats on too many semi autos (namely the Franchi SPAS-12 and Remington 11-87 that I've messed with first hand) is that damned button you have to press to enable the trapdoor to open so you can load a shell!
Biggest downfall to a pump for HD, like it was said, is short-stroking. But when my adrenaline pumps I pump hard but even with that, a little practice is all thats necessary. And if you're going to have a weapon (especially a shotgun) lying around, you need to practice or youre asking for trouble!
TRL
And, of course, use whatever works best for you! --But I've yet to meet a newbie that a semi shotty worked better for-- at least in my personal experience. It's like training a newbie on a 1911 instead of a Glock or a Revolver. It's easiest to learn the principlals on the simpler designs.
I also borrowed a semi-auto at a 3-gun match and she jammed because of the light loads he himself gave me to use in it. And they werent even incredibly light loads! Another thing that bothers me thats on too many semi autos (namely the Franchi SPAS-12 and Remington 11-87 that I've messed with first hand) is that damned button you have to press to enable the trapdoor to open so you can load a shell!
Biggest downfall to a pump for HD, like it was said, is short-stroking. But when my adrenaline pumps I pump hard but even with that, a little practice is all thats necessary. And if you're going to have a weapon (especially a shotgun) lying around, you need to practice or youre asking for trouble!
TRL
I have never, in many thousands of rounds, "short-stroked" my 870.
I've forgotten to take off the safety while hunting quail; I've put out-of-spec handloads in it that jammed the action. I've rusted it from sweat, scratched it up by dropping it in a boat, I've put way too much oil in it, I've gotten my hunting glove all jammed up in the feed system.
But I've never short-stroked it, even adrenaline-pumped from flushing quail, shooting doubles at sporting clays, or shooting multiple rounds at hand-thrown clays as fast as I could pump it.
I've never seen anyone else, even beginners who'd never seen one up close before, short-stroke a shotgun, either.
I have a semiauto and a pump sitting next to each other in the safe. While the semiauto is nice for doubles or birds, I'd grab the pump if I ever needed to use it for defense. I just plain trust it more, and I think it's easier to keep safe without fumbling -- avoiding shooting the innocent is a vital part of "home defense."
I've forgotten to take off the safety while hunting quail; I've put out-of-spec handloads in it that jammed the action. I've rusted it from sweat, scratched it up by dropping it in a boat, I've put way too much oil in it, I've gotten my hunting glove all jammed up in the feed system.
But I've never short-stroked it, even adrenaline-pumped from flushing quail, shooting doubles at sporting clays, or shooting multiple rounds at hand-thrown clays as fast as I could pump it.
I've never seen anyone else, even beginners who'd never seen one up close before, short-stroke a shotgun, either.
I have a semiauto and a pump sitting next to each other in the safe. While the semiauto is nice for doubles or birds, I'd grab the pump if I ever needed to use it for defense. I just plain trust it more, and I think it's easier to keep safe without fumbling -- avoiding shooting the innocent is a vital part of "home defense."
It depends what you like.....
I have my grandfather's 16 ga Rem Model 11 that he gave me in 1957. I have killed a bezillion dove, quail and ducks with it while being 100 percent reliable. Never a misfire or malfunction all this time. I have another, 20 ga, I bought in 1978 that is also just as reliable. I just did not take a shine to pump shotguns because I could not reach the slide when I was a kid and it was aukward for me to shoot. My next choice is a sxs double.....chris3
I have my grandfather's 16 ga Rem Model 11 that he gave me in 1957. I have killed a bezillion dove, quail and ducks with it while being 100 percent reliable. Never a misfire or malfunction all this time. I have another, 20 ga, I bought in 1978 that is also just as reliable. I just did not take a shine to pump shotguns because I could not reach the slide when I was a kid and it was aukward for me to shoot. My next choice is a sxs double.....chris3
HMMurdock
Member
Concerning reaching the slide with short arms, I have heard good things about the cheap youth-sized stocks available for most every shotty. Those also work well if you're using body armor or tactical vests, too.
TRL
TRL
John Peddie
Member
Depends
Depends what you want to do with it, and especially, on how much effort you're willing to put into maintaining it.
I have never owned a semi-strictly a sxs and pump kinda guy (well, there's a bolt action Mossberg, but that's just in case a bear gets a bit too friendly in a fishing camp).
I've never had a mechanical problem.
My friends all shoot Rem 1100's, and I've seen several hunts spoiled because they would not chamber the second shell. Guns just took the day off and turned themselves into pretty expensive single shots for a time.
Reason in each case was maintenance-in the case of the 1100's, usually failure to periodically replace the O rings.
You don't need the expensive ones you find in a gun store, either. The same exact thing is available from an auto parts store, for pennies.
The smartest of my buddies finally bought a bunch and now always has a couple of spares in his hunting coat. The other guys just keep shooting til their guns fail and THEN start thinking about maintenance.
Usually, that happens a few seconds after a nice big pheasant gets airborne and is accompanied by language not suitable for this family oriented board
Basic maintenance is not rocket science, and sure beats the "squeeze and pray it works" approach.
Depends what you want to do with it, and especially, on how much effort you're willing to put into maintaining it.
I have never owned a semi-strictly a sxs and pump kinda guy (well, there's a bolt action Mossberg, but that's just in case a bear gets a bit too friendly in a fishing camp).
I've never had a mechanical problem.
My friends all shoot Rem 1100's, and I've seen several hunts spoiled because they would not chamber the second shell. Guns just took the day off and turned themselves into pretty expensive single shots for a time.
Reason in each case was maintenance-in the case of the 1100's, usually failure to periodically replace the O rings.
You don't need the expensive ones you find in a gun store, either. The same exact thing is available from an auto parts store, for pennies.
The smartest of my buddies finally bought a bunch and now always has a couple of spares in his hunting coat. The other guys just keep shooting til their guns fail and THEN start thinking about maintenance.
Usually, that happens a few seconds after a nice big pheasant gets airborne and is accompanied by language not suitable for this family oriented board
Basic maintenance is not rocket science, and sure beats the "squeeze and pray it works" approach.
I run at least case a month through my Beretta AL391 Urika shooting sporting clays...it lives in the gun safe.
I have a Beretta o/u that I only shoot occasionally...it lives in the gun safe.
My Glock and my Ruger MarkI live in the gun safe.
Its a Mossburg 835 that sleeps under my bed. 'nuf said
I have a Beretta o/u that I only shoot occasionally...it lives in the gun safe.
My Glock and my Ruger MarkI live in the gun safe.
Its a Mossburg 835 that sleeps under my bed. 'nuf said
Superpsy
Member
in response to your question...
yes.
yes.
ronto
Member
Do LEO's have pumps in the car?...Or is that just the movies?
If the answer is yes, it sounds like a vote for pumps to me.
If the answer is yes, it sounds like a vote for pumps to me.
I think pump is more reliable,but just for fun check this out !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8p-xIs76RA&search=beretta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8p-xIs76RA&search=beretta
Leo's have pumps in their cars primarily because of cost, acquisiton and maintenance, and a few relics in the front office. If they could afford a Semi they'd have one in the car.
I don't buy the argument that because the cops use it means it is the "best".
I don't buy the argument that because the cops use it means it is the "best".
ronto
Member
LEOs AND PUMPS
If I was a professional and my and others lives depended on the reliabilty of a weapon,I would want the most reliabile I could find and cost would not be an issue. Now if I was just shooting at ducks, that's another story.
But that's just me.
If I was a professional and my and others lives depended on the reliabilty of a weapon,I would want the most reliabile I could find and cost would not be an issue. Now if I was just shooting at ducks, that's another story.
But that's just me.
Nathan Williams
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johncross what a neat little video clip. The R.O at the range I go to when I dont feel like making the 45min drive to my parents farm is a dick. Think I will try some of those shots the next time I am there just to make his day. 
Just kidding, however my vote goes to the pump, Ive never had a pump fail but have had more jams with a auto than I can recall.
Just kidding, however my vote goes to the pump, Ive never had a pump fail but have had more jams with a auto than I can recall.Grayrider
Member
I have two observations on this that put me squarely on both sides of the fence.
First after many years of martial arts I find myself with a right shoulder that is pretty much shot (there is a lesson in that for you younger fellows). As I shoot left handed and cycle the action right handed, I am dismayed to find that I now have trouble running a pump gun for very many rounds without significant pain in the right shoulder.
Second, I sure like the reduced recoil loads some ammo makers have now. Touching one of those off feels nothing like a 12 gauge shell. Not that I cannot handle 12 gauge recoil, but for defensive use the reduced loads seem adequate and allow fast recoveries. Where were those when I went through basic police training back in the early 90s? Of course some auto-loaders won't cycle them, so that would be an advantage for pump guns. They will run just about anything.
As with all firearms I think we each pick what suits us best IF we take time to figure out what that is. It can take a while if you decide to really experiment to find out. I was years of buying/shooting/selling various guns before I became set in my choices. I still experiment regularly to see if anything new is out there I might appreciate. Well that and just for the fun of having new toys.
GR
First after many years of martial arts I find myself with a right shoulder that is pretty much shot (there is a lesson in that for you younger fellows). As I shoot left handed and cycle the action right handed, I am dismayed to find that I now have trouble running a pump gun for very many rounds without significant pain in the right shoulder.
Second, I sure like the reduced recoil loads some ammo makers have now. Touching one of those off feels nothing like a 12 gauge shell. Not that I cannot handle 12 gauge recoil, but for defensive use the reduced loads seem adequate and allow fast recoveries. Where were those when I went through basic police training back in the early 90s? Of course some auto-loaders won't cycle them, so that would be an advantage for pump guns. They will run just about anything.
As with all firearms I think we each pick what suits us best IF we take time to figure out what that is. It can take a while if you decide to really experiment to find out. I was years of buying/shooting/selling various guns before I became set in my choices. I still experiment regularly to see if anything new is out there I might appreciate. Well that and just for the fun of having new toys.
GR
HMMurdock
Member
LEOs, when they have shotguns, generally do have pumps.
In my local jurisdiction, most all departments have switched over to Ruger Mini-14 .223s and AR-15 .223s, though.
They don't have pumps because they are "better" so much as "easier to use". Cost and maintenance or a big factor, but if they can afford an AR-15 they can afford a semi-auto shotty. But many departments feel if they are going to drop that much cash on a trunk gun it should be an assault rifle which affords great accuracy and distance. Don't blame me, that's what they told me!
Semi-auto shottys are sweet, but very pricey and for the benefits you don't get much more. Double the price for slightly faster follow-ups and less overall reliablity?
Did I say slightly faster follow ups? --Train with a pump and see how quickly you can light 'em off. Still don't believe me and I'll try to post a video of myself at work
Pump shotguns are like revolvers. Cheap and reliable, which is why LEOs used revolvers for so long, but have switched over to the semi-auto Glocks and Sigs of the world. I'm afraid pump shotguns will be totally replaced by semi-auto rifles as time goes on. Unless we get to pick what we carry... then its a pump for me!
TRL
In my local jurisdiction, most all departments have switched over to Ruger Mini-14 .223s and AR-15 .223s, though.
They don't have pumps because they are "better" so much as "easier to use". Cost and maintenance or a big factor, but if they can afford an AR-15 they can afford a semi-auto shotty. But many departments feel if they are going to drop that much cash on a trunk gun it should be an assault rifle which affords great accuracy and distance. Don't blame me, that's what they told me!
Semi-auto shottys are sweet, but very pricey and for the benefits you don't get much more. Double the price for slightly faster follow-ups and less overall reliablity?
Did I say slightly faster follow ups? --Train with a pump and see how quickly you can light 'em off. Still don't believe me and I'll try to post a video of myself at work
Pump shotguns are like revolvers. Cheap and reliable, which is why LEOs used revolvers for so long, but have switched over to the semi-auto Glocks and Sigs of the world. I'm afraid pump shotguns will be totally replaced by semi-auto rifles as time goes on. Unless we get to pick what we carry... then its a pump for me!
TRL
Blacklabman
Member
is pump action shotgun really better than semi-auto action shotgun?
my friend told me pump action has more reliability,but in some cases,if u missed the fire,u would miss again with pump action shotgun(for example,a flying duckA
Is the pump better???
A quick answer for hunting is no.
HD/Tactical shotguns are not my cup of tea, so I do not own any. nor have any desire to.
I will talk from a hunting aspect.
I have an 870 that was a gift back in 1978. I stopped using it some years ago.
Beretta O/U's are nice, if you can deal with the inertia triggers. Frankly, I hate them and own and prefer the Browing Citori with mechanical trigger.
My semi-auto's(Benelli's, A-5) have been just as reliable.
They have been on countless duck/goose hunts here, other states along with Manitoba and Alberta. They have been nothing but reliable.
If you ever go to Argentina for dove, duck, or goose hunting, the semi-auto 391 is the main rental shotgun.
Why?? because they help absorb some of the high volume shooting recoil, and they work.
From the apect of reliability.
Pumps have not been better, for some years now.
my friend told me pump action has more reliability,but in some cases,if u missed the fire,u would miss again with pump action shotgun(for example,a flying duckA
Is the pump better???
A quick answer for hunting is no.
HD/Tactical shotguns are not my cup of tea, so I do not own any. nor have any desire to.
I will talk from a hunting aspect.
I have an 870 that was a gift back in 1978. I stopped using it some years ago.
Beretta O/U's are nice, if you can deal with the inertia triggers. Frankly, I hate them and own and prefer the Browing Citori with mechanical trigger.
My semi-auto's(Benelli's, A-5) have been just as reliable.
They have been on countless duck/goose hunts here, other states along with Manitoba and Alberta. They have been nothing but reliable.
If you ever go to Argentina for dove, duck, or goose hunting, the semi-auto 391 is the main rental shotgun.
Why?? because they help absorb some of the high volume shooting recoil, and they work.
From the apect of reliability.
Pumps have not been better, for some years now.
Nathan Williams
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- Aug 6, 2006
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- 190
Shotties for trunk guns? 
Around my parts the LEO's keep the shotgun between the seats, and a MP5 in the trunk.
Around my parts the LEO's keep the shotgun between the seats, and a MP5 in the trunk.stiletto raggio
Member
People always talk aobut eh reliability of a pump over an auto. After all, a lot of cops use 'em, right? Yeah, because they are cheap. The military was issuing Mossbergs until they selected--surprise--the Benelli M4/M1014 AUTO as its replacement. The testing was not easy, either. The fact is, most people can stay on target easier, hit faster and handle the weapon more smoothly. Try pumping a shotgun from a low prone position or laying across the top of a vehcile or toher barricade. Is it easy to stay on target? Is it instinctive to people with not-so-intensive familiarization with the weapon?
For most people, the auto will perform better as a combat or target gun than a pump. Is it worth the diefference in price? How deep are your pockets?
For most people, the auto will perform better as a combat or target gun than a pump. Is it worth the diefference in price? How deep are your pockets?
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