Is RKBA actually in danger?

Status
Not open for further replies.

keeleon

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
254
So, I jus joined my local gun club last night (Yay me!), and I heard something that I am not sure what it means. One of the members, an older guy like in his 80s or so, is the "political activism supervisor" or somesuch. He was saying something about how the National Guard used to be the US's "militia", and that in 1903 or thereabouts, they became capable of being deployed overseas, and that somehow changed what the 2A means according to some other context. I didn't get a chance to ask him what he was actually talking about, but he seemed to be warning everyone that "if the law doesn't change, then we all lose our rights".

I really don't know what he meant. Can anyone clarify this for me? I know you would be a freaking genius if you could once and for all end the debate over what 2A actually means, I am just curious if anyone knows more abou this.
 
I don't know about the National Guard thing but yes the RKBA is in danger.
Just look at the current laws in many states. They are so bad that we call some states "The Peoples Republic of **********"

One of the advantages (or disadvantages) of being an "older guy" is you have seen how things have changed over 70 years.

A small example.
When a young kid if I walked down the street carrying a 22 rifle, if anyone said anything at all it was like, Hey boy can you hit anything with that rifle?.

Now days a child is suspended from school for drawing a picture of a gun or pointing their finger.
The kids are taught in school, for some years now, that everything about guns is evil and people that have anything to do with them are bad, and the adults are constantly fed the same message on TV news and TV programing.

I won't be around to see it but I doubt very much if ownership of any guns will be legal in 30-40 years.


People make too much of the protection of the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment.
Both can be changed and will be as the country becomes more and more liberal.
Even with the 2nd Amendment states pass and enforce laws that clearly violate the 2nd Amendment.


Now both of the front runners for President are anti-gun and no doubt will sign any anti-gun legislation that is sent to them.

Maybe it won't take 30-40 years.:(
 
No matter how much international law and current social conditions play into the SCOTUS decision, there's no way they can ignore the fact that the other 9 amendments in the Bill of Rights specifically protect individual rights. Not saying that they'll surely rule in our favor, but I think there is strong precedent in our favor.

I look at this kind of like instant replay in pro football. There has to be irrefutable proof to overturn the ruling on the field, and with the 9 other amendments protecting individual rights, that proof just isn't there, IMO.
 
Yes, it is clear that the other 9 amendments protect individual rights. And to boot, the 2nd states the "The rights of THE PEOPLE shall not be infringed". How clear can it be?
 
All this reliance on what is said in the Constitution is rather naive. The Constitution can be changed and it can be ignored. It has been in the past. If the wrong people are allowed to be in charge (and it seems that both parties have nothing but wrong people to offer) they will do what they want to do. You can, at that point, whine "But the Constitution says...!" and if they bother to answer you at all it will be to say "So what?" Gun owners whining about the Constitution remind be of Piggy whining "But I got the conch!"
Right now you should be working to make sure the wrong people are not elected. Are you? The Constitution only has as much value as the people we choose to govern us.
 
Thanks for that link. I'm still not quite sure how this affects our rights. Is it because the NAtional Guard is counted as the "people's militia" in the 2A? I think there is enough historical precedent to overrule that. The reason it was written was so that the government WOULDN'T be able to completely dominate the people. The precedent is that we left an oppressive land to come here for freedom, and that the individual "people" have the right to defend their freedom.

and it seems that both parties have nothing but wrong people to offer

Right now you should be working to make sure the wrong people are not elected. Are you?

:mad: How am I supposed to do this, when this is very true?
 
I think I may understand part of what the guy was saying. IF you consider the 2nd Amendment to be directly connected to the militia (which as most of us, and most scholars, don't think it is, as their are two thoughts going on, not one* see below) then the National Guard at one point and time could be considered a militia. Like 200 years ago, before they were the national guard. But once the national guard become capable of being federalized, they stopped being a militia.

The point of the original militia, was in all honesty and accuracy, to have a force ready to overthrow the government if need be. Once the government can control the militia, it loses that purpose and is not just another standing army. National Guard can be federalized and deployed and is now just a standing army, in no way meeting ANY definition of a militia.

I don't see how that is a bad thing in relating to the second amendment. Firstly, the 2A affirms the right to the people, not the militia. Second, the national guard not being a militia is good, because if somehow the courts rule it is a militia right, the case can be made that the entire population is the militia, and thus the right is still affirmed to the individual.

*The two thoughts of the 2A were expressed very well on Penn and Teller's show "Bull****" on showtime. They basically read it out loud like such:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, (ok, so we need a militia) the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed (OK and the right of the PEOPLE, not the militia).

So what they're saying, and most scholars say, is that the 2nd Amendment means: A fighting force will always be necessary to keep the State free and further, the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. They're really two unrelated things. If anything, the connection is "BECAUSE we will always need a fighting force WE ALSO NEED armed citizens to protect against them in the event of tyranny."


And in response to M2 Carbine, I hope we don't see the days when guns are completely stripped - I for one won't stand for it. At the very least I'll find my place some nice bit of wilderness to mind my own business in. Hell, I'll go as far away as Alaska if it means I can just live in peace the way I want to.

While gun control has gotten more strict (generally) and there seems to be a bigger media attack, one thing that is comforting is that more and more people are buying guns. So the general citizenry of the US is pro-gun. We need to just keep recruiting new shooters on a personal level.

This board has 11,500 active members and a total registration of about 57,000. There are also thousands of guests. If us active members, all 11,500 of us, could recruit 3 new shooters a year, thats like 35,000 new shooters. It may seem small on the grand scale, but it'll add up. And don't aim for 3! Aim for 30! Stretching it, I know, but I've brought 2 new shooters into the fold in the month of November. Well, one is a new shooter, and one is a shooter that had stopped for years but is back in. I'm helping him pick out his first pistol.

I've got 2 more lined up ready to go to the range this weekend, so that puts me at 4 in the past 5 weeks. Take the challenge and recruit new shooters!
 
This is our Guadalcanal moment. If we make fewer mistakes than they do, we can start them down the road to defeat. If we don't, things can get very ugly for us indeed.
 
Yes, it is clear that the other 9 amendments protect individual rights. And to boot, the 2nd states the "The rights of THE PEOPLE shall not be infringed". How clear can it be?
It does not matter much. We endure wholesale violations of every one of our constitutionally protected right everyday, with the exception of the third.

Its not just about one right. Its about them all. As long as one right is in jeopardy they all are.
 
Last edited:
Good News !

If guns are banned, I would be more than willing to turn them in... wink, wink..
 
look at the big picture

the political forces that stand to benefit from a disarmed populace are as powerful now as ever, and they have a gullible public easily swayed by emotional reaction to fuel their drive. These forces will never go away and are always working....it is about power, and RKBA is power distributed among people, something not acceptable to the highest forces behind the anti movement. Simple, visible, protesting faces are pawns . . .

Those who insisted upon the amendments were wise, and understood this, and made it as clear as they possibly could.

st
 
I've seen a lot of changes over the years that I never would have believed could happen.

And yes our RKBA and 2A rights could be a thing of the past for future generations, but that doesn't mean that we should ever give up the fight!

If I don't leave anything else for my grandkids and great grandkids, I hope that is one thing that I can!
 
Try living in my parts.

Oh, believe me, I have for 26 years, lol. I just joined the "Apple Valley Gun Club" if that tells you where I am.

It seems to me that "federalizing" the National Guard just further enforces the need for a "militia of the people", and gives even more credence to RKBA. that's why I was so confused when the guy said it was a bad thing that the National Guard was able to be sent overseas.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top