Is the 1911 a Reliable Design?

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No that's why most of us love then so much, can't help being sarcastic. If you spent any time in a gun forum you have seen the 1911 mentioned more than any other handgun.
Why do you think that might be? and why do they run 1000 dollars and up, for a high end gun.
 
Of course it is reliable, when executed properly in a firearm that is properly maintained, equipped with a good magazine, and fed good ammunition. Not all 1911 type pistols measure up, but the best do.

From what I have read, however, there are a number of pistols that are generally thought to be even more reliable--Beretta, Glock, and SIG Sauer, to name the best ones. However, none of those suit me as well for various reasons.

Where the BHP, CZ75, and S&W M&P fit on the scale, I do not know.

I carry a steel frame STI Guardian in .45 and a Smith M&P 9c; the former has worked perfectly since new except with some lead allow wadcutter-type handloads, and the M&P has been reliable after the first 100 or so rounds.
 
i have bottom of the heap(ria)so they say a used gi 5k rds two fs tacs 800 in each, a new citadel 300 so far lo and behold no problems!!!!! and i trust them with my life. so yes i rely on them
 
My short answer is no. I have not read the 6 prior pages of commentary but here is my reasoning for doubt. I hear things like "if done right", or "100 years of production make is so", or with good magazines, and do not find these reasons to be valid. I have 2 (yep only 2) 1911's: a SA Loaded 45, and a Dan Wesson PM-7 in 10MM which are well noted manufacturers. They do have some feeding issues say .4% based on my round counts. That is to say 2 misfeeds out of about 500 rounds. My carry weapon outside of CA is a Glock G27. It is so far 100% reliable. That is no failures in 500 rounds. I just don't see the 1911 gun as being equal in reliability as the newer generation of guns. My math agrees with me.
 
They do have some feeding issues say .4% based on my round counts.
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They weren't "done right." Your Glock was. If not, you would have the same issues with it. Run crappy or damaged mags in the Glock and get back to me.

"Done right" and "with good magazinzes" is valid with any autoloader...don't care who made it. My logic agrees with me.

I wouldn't own a firearm that malfunctioned twice in 500 rounds.
 
I hear things like "if done right", or "100 years of production make is so", or with good magazines, and do not find these reasons to be valid.
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So if I set up Ugaarguy manufacturing to build a Glock 17 clone, but it varies from Glock's specs in critical areas, I use ultra cheap USA brand magazines, and the pistol doesn't work does it mean that the Glock 17 is suddenly an unreliable design? By your reasoning if I do that then I can make the Glock 17 an unreliable design by doing that.

You should go back and read the previous 6 pages of replies and pay particular attention to the replies by 1911Tuner.
 
In the original GI conficuration, yes. With all the "tuning" and "upgrading" manufactures and individials do to the guns these days, they may be more accurate (questionably) they are almost never more reliable.
 
my expierence with the 1911 is very reliable, in fact i can fire it with my weak hand holding the pistol upside down and it still functions without failure. anybody with the plastic fantanstic pistols able to do this? doubtful, you will say limp-wristing not the pistols fault.

as stated in other post it is out of spec pistols and custom pistols. i don't blame customs like Les Baer he is filling a niche, people want a 1911 with guarentee accurracy of 1" at 50 yds. he will give it to you but you are sacrificing reliability. 99% people can't shoot a custom pistol any better than a stock pistol and would be able to shoot any ammo trouble free.
 
Well, all of you that want to defend the 1911 are really ignoring the abundance of unreliable 1911 guns produced today. The "if done right" just doesn't cut it with me. I don't need to read 6 pages of prior posts to realize what has happened with the 1911 guns being produced. Like it or not the design as being made from many many manufacturers is hit and miss. I use my 1911's for recreational shooting and my Glock for self defense. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I really wish the 1911 manufacturers would produce a reliable product like the Glock because I am a big fan of the gun - I just see the final product from something other than the glasses others are wearing.
 
I'd take a Les Baer in the reliability column over any stock 1911 South of its price point. They are both accurate and reliable, something LB owners know.

The 1911 is a reliable design. Closing large tolerances does not automatically increase or decrease reliability. A large number of current 1911 manufacturers shouldn't be, they give Hi Points a good name.

Robert, I can no more defend what some 1911 manufacturers do than you can defend every manufacturer of AR-15s. Does a Noveske with Magpul P-Mags work better than an Oly with import "GI" mags? It would be an act of God if it didn't. I'm not wearing glasses, I'm defending the design- that was the original question.
 
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I hear things like "if done right", or "100 years of production make is so", or with good magazines, and do not find these reasons to be valid.
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Ok then in that case your G27 is a unreliable design because it won't feed using XD40 mags. If it's a reliable design by your standards it shouldn't matter who makes the mags or to what spec they're made to.
 
I agree with Mr. Tuner. I have carried, and still do carry a 1911 (Colt Series 70) since I began my career as a LEO in 1976. I bought the gun because at that time I was a skinny 21 year old and was going lame from carrying a Colt Python of S&W Model 27. A Vietnam veteran I worked with told me to get a Colt Government model. I did. I've carried it ever since. It has been my experience that the more you "mess" with the gun, the more liklihood of a problem. I never had a reliability package, trigger job, beavertail grip safety, extended thumb safety, slide and frame tightning, ramp and throat, checkering, stippling, or lowered and flared ejection port. I did have the mag well beveled and also had King Tappen sights installed, those were just higher visibility sights, and changed out the series 70 collet bushing. I used Colt 7 round mags. I practiced with the cheapest 230 grain FMJ brass case ammo I could find and carried Winchester Ranger JHP on duty. The gun worked, it always worked. I cleaned it after shooting, detail stripped it every year, unless I was caught in a downpour for an extended period of time, kept it oiled, and wiped down the exterior with an oily rag or silicone cloth. I went to an armorer's school, so I could do some minor parts replacement, when necessary. IMHO, the problems arose when everyone had to have the gun magazine of the month modification, and let less than qualified people work on their guns. There are only 3 people in the US I would ever allow to work on my gun, and they are all out of the area where I live. After 36 years of carrying this old gun, I think it best to keep things simple, and shoot the thing a bunch. I'm not really sure what firing umpteen thousand rounds through a gun proves, unless you are trying to shoot the thing to failure. I really can't imaging a cop, or private CCW permit holder getting in a 100,000 round shootout.
 
Well, all of you that want to defend the 1911 are really ignoring the abundance of unreliable 1911 guns produced today. The "if done right" just doesn't cut it with me. I don't need to read 6 pages of prior posts to realize what has happened with the 1911 guns being produced.
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And that's not the fault of the design. It's the execution of the design.

Of the total number of 1911 pistols that I've been obliged to work on for functional issues, about 90% of them are cured by either handing the shooter a few good magazines, or making minor adjustments to the extractor. Occasionally, I'll have to recut a barrel ramp...but it's relatively rare. This does assume that a previous owner hasn't "improved" it with a Dremel moto tool or doing a double-throwdown trigger job at his girlfriend's kitchen table while they drink wine and watch American Idol on the teevee.

The preponderance of the ones that aren't simple cures have been dinked with...either by a former owner or the present owner who blames it on a former owner.

For the few true lemons that appear, consider these two things.

1. Many clone and variant producers either seem to be making them up as they go, or they're just determined to prove that they can do it differently.

2. When a blue gazillion pistols are being made every year by about 20 different manufacturers...most of which are actually assemblers of various outsourced parts...you're bound to get a few bad ones.
 
I really wish the 1911 manufacturers would produce a reliable product like the Glock
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Here is the difference.. multiple manufacturers vs ONE manufacturer. and as previously said XXX times, multiple manufacturers using slight variations of the original design. Once Glock's patents run out and any tom dick and harry can produce clones, watch out.
 
This discussion brings to mind the classic discussion about Apple and Microsoft. Apple makes the software and the hardware, you use Apple only products and things generally work well. If it does not work well, you re-install everything and then it works well again.
Microsoft you buy hardware usually from multiple vendors, you can find software from thousands of sources (some good and some bad). You complain if you spend 1/3 as much for Windows products as the Apple equivalent. So, which is better? MS or Apple?
 
I guess I just got lucky:

I agree with Mr. Tuner. I have carried, and still do carry a 1911 (Colt Series 70) since I began my career as a LEO in 1976. I bought the gun because at that time I was a skinny 21 year old and was going lame from carrying a Colt Python of S&W Model 27. A Vietnam veteran I worked with told me to get a Colt Government model. I did. I've carried it ever since. It has been my experience that the more you "mess" with the gun, the more liklihood of a problem. I never had a reliability package, trigger job, beavertail grip safety, extended thumb safety, slide and frame tightning, ramp and throat, checkering, stippling, or lowered and flared ejection port. I did have the mag well beveled and also had King Tappen sights installed, those were just higher visibility sights, and changed out the series 70 collet bushing. I used Colt 7 round mags. I practiced with the cheapest 230 grain FMJ brass case ammo I could find and carried Winchester Ranger JHP on duty. The gun worked, it always worked. I cleaned it after shooting, detail stripped it every year, unless I was caught in a downpour for an extended period of time, kept it oiled, and wiped down the exterior with an oily rag or silicone cloth. I went to an armorer's school, so I could do some minor parts replacement, when necessary. IMHO, the problems arose when everyone had to have the gun magazine of the month modification, and let less than qualified people work on their guns. There are only 3 people in the US I would ever allow to work on my gun, and they are all out of the area where I live. After 36 years of carrying this old gun, I think it best to keep things simple, and shoot the thing a bunch. I'm not really sure what firing umpteen thousand rounds through a gun proves, unless you are trying to shoot the thing to failure. I really can't imaging a cop, or private CCW permit holder getting in a 100,000 round shootout."
"
 
A little story is in order, I guess. Got the dogs all tended to early, and I've got a little time on my hands.

True story. Every word. Near as I can recall, it was about 6 years ago.

I'm at PHA with a couple of my beaters and 72 Metalform magazines stoked up with 200-grain home cast SWCs. Another early bird was in a bay with a Springfield GI Mil-Spec. I hear intermittent bang-bang-bang punctuated by a string of words that I must not repeat here lest Art's grammaw wash my mouth out with soap.

Curious...I step over to the next bay to see if I can help the guy out. His blood pressure is up. Way up. He can't get this thing to run, no matter what ammo or what magazine or what ancient chant he practices...and he's ready to throw it in the dumpster. Then he offers to sell it to me for a hundred bucks. He keeps his magazines, though. They're new and not part of the deal.

:)

I pay him, and he stomps off to shoot a nice 6-inch Python. He hears his pistol bangin' away without stoppages. Curious, he steps around the wall to make sure it's his pistol. Yep. Runs like a Singer sewin' machine says I. Purty good shooter. Best C-note I ever spent.

He's all Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Demands to know what I did to get it to run...probably suspicious that I was some kinda reincarnated Mayan shaman. Tweaked the extractor a little and started shootin' says I.

With cast semi-wadcutters? He inquired.

Yep. Wanna try it?

He wanted to try again. Brought his magazines over, and it was the same ol' same. Bang-bang-jam-cuss-bang-bang-jam-cuss-bang.

He can't understand it. These are the best magazines money can buy. Said so right there on the internet.

I sold it back to him for a hundred bucks. My deviousness will only go so far.

Next Sunday rolls around, and he's back. Same pistol. Same magazines. Same story. Bang-bang-jam-cuss-bang-jam-cuss-bang.

Many expletives deleted. Grammaw never sleeps.

Bygodthesemagazinesarethebestthatmoneycanbuyandbygodthey'regonnawork!

*sigh*
 
I wouldn't of taken you for a teaser of dawgs, Tuner, even one who refused to learn a simple new trick. :) Was they Chip McWilson Crossbred Tactical Elites by chance? Not as good as the Elite Pro models with the Ti followers. :D
 
And the best part is, that Springer of his probably came with Metalform magazines. Reliable and cheap - what's not to love?
 
Well, all of you that want to defend the 1911 are really ignoring the abundance of unreliable 1911 guns produced today.
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There are an abundance of unreliable automobiles produced today. You don't drive a car, do you?


The "if done right" just doesn't cut it with me.
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And who are you?

I don't need to read 6 pages of prior posts to realize what has happened with the 1911 guns being produced.
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Of course not. You have a PHD in internetology.
 
I think some people mistake JMB with Rube Goldberg when they Wiki "facts" about the 1911. I've seen far too many engineers, machinists and professional operators express their approval of the design to believe that it is by chance, ignorance or snobbery.

It takes no more effort to become acquainted with the 1911's design than one might spend becoming a Glock armorer. I see that title emblazoned on countless signature lines so I know people have the time. The question is, do they lack the motivation?

To those who shared a personal disappointment, don't be a victim of that experience. If you buy a cheap ATI and the sights fall off, Arnel will fix it. New Springfield extractor clocking? Call Judy, I hear she's nice. Colt plunger tube loose? Brent will make it right. All for free. (Due diligence in selecting a brand can help as well). Insert baby/bath water cliche here.
 
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