Is the 7.62 x 39 an American Cartridge?

[BSA1]

The 30-30, 30-06 and .223/5.56 were born in the United States and have a long, rich history of use by Americans.

As movie fans know the Winchester 92 and 30-30 won the West. The 30-30 is best known for hunting deer and remains popular today.

The 30-06 and 5.56 have their roots as military cartridges. They proved to be so versatile that they have become the main standard by which most other calibers are measured. The 30-06 is most commonly named as a choice for hunting medium and big game and the .223 (5.56 in civilian clothes) is used for hunting, shooting competitions, pest control and just plain fun like informal plinking.

The 7.62 x 39 is cartridge designed in a Communist country and has and still is used against American soldiers many times. Yet despite this history it has become a very popular cartridge in the United States. Guns and ammunition are made in the United States.

So has the 7.62 x 39 reached the level of acceptance to be considered an "American Cartridge?"

 

[RugerOldArmy]

As movie fans know the Winchester 92 and 30-30 won the West.

Hollywood always gets it wrong. You could make a better case for the Winchester 73 and the .44-40.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

The 30-06 and 5.56 have their roots as military cartridges. They proved to be so versatile that they have become the main standard by which most other calibers are measured. The 30-06 is most commonly named as a choice for hunting medium and big game and the .223 (5.56 in civilian clothes) is used for hunting, shooting competitions, pest control and just plain fun like informal plinking.

If you're looking to add a cartridge to that list .308 Win would be my pick, and it is superior to 7.62x39.

 

[tubeshooter]

So has the 7.62 x 39 reached the level of acceptance to be considered an "American Cartridge?"

In a word (and IMHO)...


...no.

 

[TarDevil]

It's very much a gun-specific cartridge, unlike the others you mentioned.

 

[hq]

So has the 7.62 x 39 reached the level of acceptance to be considered an "American Cartridge?"

As a non-american (well, sometimes I feel - almost - like one, go figure) the greatest single thing about the United States is adaptability and openness to new concepts and ideas. Anything and everything can be or become American in a short order. Patriotism can be a great thing but so is an amazing level of adaptability and willingness to accept all kinds of inventions, without the NIH-stigma. Even the cartridge of a sworn long-time enemy, not to mention the rifle most commonly associated with it, the AK. Just look at the civilian sales figures for proof.

Let's put it this way: if it works and has a benefit or merit of some kind, it's American. If it isn't (yet), just wait a few years and it will be.

My $.02, and how I perceive what "American" is all about. Don't take it too seriously.

 

[BigBore44]

I don’t believe so. Acceptance of a cartridge does not equate to it to being “American”. It’s origins are it’s origins.

 

[hq]

I don’t believe so. Acceptance of a cartridge does not equate to it to being “American”. It’s origins are it’s origins.

It took my cousin eight years to become (an) American, why wouldn't 70+ years suffice for a cartridge to do the same thing?

 

[BigBore44]

Because the 7.62x39 didn’t have to apply for citizenship, take a civics class, and pass the Naturalization test to receive citizenship.

 

[chicharrones]

My gut reaction is to say the 7.62x39 is not American, but then I think of the 9x19.

Warsaw Pact vs. NATO memories might have something to do with my perception since the Cold War helped align the 9mm to the side America was on.

The 9x19 was adopted by the US military making it American, but the 7.62x39 was not.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

The only "American" cartridge measured in millimetres is the 6mm Lee Navy.......

Iol, I jest, but no, I wouldn't consider it an American cartridge. Im still quite fond of the round and its guns- I own more 7.63x39 ammo than all other calibers combined.

 

[BSA1]

I don’t believe so. Acceptance of a cartridge does not equate to it to being “American”. It’s origins are it’s origins.

The 9mm was designed by Georg Luger and first marketed in Germany in 1902. It is the best selling handgun cartridge in the United States and has near universal use by law enforcement agencies.

So 115 years later is it still a German cartridge?

 

[BSA1]

My gut reaction is to say the 7.62x39 is not American, but then I think of the 9x19.

Warsaw Pact vs. NATO memories might have something to do with my perception since the Cold War helped align the 9mm to the side America was on.

The 9x19 was adopted by the US military making it American, but the 7.62x39 was not.

You posted your thoughts as I was typing mine. Does being adopted by the military change it's status?

 

[R.W.Dale]

I would say that the 7.62x39 has reached a point where it has near household name recognition amongst the most commonly referenced rounds today.

In fact it may have surpassed the 30/30 in terms of cartridges not quite gun people know about.

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't see where "country of origin" has anything to do with anything. If it's good, use it.

 

[cp1969]

.303 British has been around a lot longer than the 7.62x39 and is not an 'American' cartridge.

I think where a cartridge was developed and first used is its permanent home.

 

[BigBore44]

I don't see where "country of origin" has anything to do with anything. If it's good, use it.

It does for the context of the OP’s question. It is not an American (country of origin) cartridge. But I agree Art. If it’s a good cartridge, and you like it, use it.

 

[denton]

I don't see where "country of origin" has anything to do with anything. If it's good, use it.

This!

Is the 7x57 now an American cartridge? I'm an American, and I have one. How about the 6.5x55? I have two of those.

 

[Art Eatman]

Lotsa Lugers and Mausers were brought back after WW I. A gun's no good without ammo. We've used foreign stuff for a hundred years, so it's hard for me to see why it's worth talking about.

 

[Riomouse911]

IMHO, Much like the genealogical lineage of a person can't be changed, cartridge design lineage is the same. One may claim citizenship in a place where one loves to live, but you are always going to be "from" somewhere based on your family history.

The 7.62x39 Russian round is just that, historically Russian...like the 7.62x54R. However the 7.62x39 has been widely adopted in the US for sporting purposes, and, sadly, in the Middle East and Africa for more violent reasons, so like the 9x19 (German) is worldwide, the 7.62x39 is a global standard cartridge with Russian roots.

 

[CraigC]

Like Art said, I don't really think of it in those terms. If pressed to offer an opinion my gut says, "not really". The 6.5x55 and 7x57 are much older but I don't consider them "American" cartridges. They're decidedly European cartridges. Just as the 7.62x39 will always be associated with the AK/SKS and the Soviet Union. As was said before, their roots are what they are and that can never be changed. As much as I feel at home in Tennessee, my roots, no matter how shallow and no matter how much I wish it weren't so, are still Florida.

IMHO, the shortcoming of the 7.62x39 and the one thing that keeps it from getting over the hump, is the odd bore size.

 

[lemaymiami]

Coo Hares... simply put -no it's not an "american" (note the small print...) cartridge... After initially winning attention as one of the first modern intermediate battle cartridges ( I personally think that .30 carbine should be in that short list...) around the world came the collapse of the system that brought it into being... That resulted in supplies around the world suddenly coming to the market at very low prices (along with the SKS, AK ,and similar weapons in various surplus conditions - also very cheap - at least initially...).

Folks in our country are pretty quick to take a look at something newly available - and if there's a place for it, we'll see it getting some use... Nothing like vast quantities of relatively cheap ammo to get folks trying it (and the weapons it was initially designed for)... A few years down the road and long time manufacturers began answering a small demand that grew over time for weapons chambered for it. At first just a trickle then quite a bit more than that - that round is now offered in ARs, Mini's, and even bolt actions (where it's been surprisingly accurate -and pretty well received among hog hunters....).

I'm a vietnam vet (101 Abn, 1971) so this discussion might have gotten a rise out of me -but like most folks I'm fairly practical - and if it works, why would give a moment's consideration to its origins? In the last 100 years military small arms have seen a bunch of changes over time - and at almost every turn those arms (and the cartridges they used) have had a definite effect on the civilian market... Me, I'll gladly take a look at anything - if it meets my needs (and I can afford it...) it might even find a home with me....

Now, let's reverse my first words and say "who cares"....

 

[chicharrones]

You posted your thoughts as I was typing mine. Does being adopted by the military change it's status?

I'm not sure. A German designed/adopted cartridge fired out of an Italian designed firearm (Beretta) for the US military sure does cloud things up a bit.

 

[chicharrones]

By the way, I don't think saying that the 7.62x39 is not American is insulting the cartridge or the people that use that cartridge.

Just like an old Volkswagen Beetle or Porsche or Honda or Toyota might be used by Americans and some of those cars might even be built in America, I still think of where the parent company/designer(s) is located as being the country of "heritage".

I had a Toyota Matrix made in Canada, but I still thought of it as, and purchased it because, it was a "Japanese" car.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

Had you asked if the AK series of rifles was an "American" design, you could make a good argument for that. The action is very similar in function to an M1 Garand, and the rifle itself is visually similar to the Remington Model 8.