is the AR-15 reliable enough for SHTF

[polik6887]

I have never owned a DI AR-15, just some pistol caliber uppers for my lower.

I have shot plenty of them, and have freinds that own them. again and again I find them unreliable and finicky. the owners always blame the ammo, lack of lube, too much lube, the magazines, everything but the gun.

however, I cant understand how the military would use them if they wernt reliable.

so what has been your experience, if you dont have time to grab anything but your rifle and a box of ammo (ie, no lube), would you grab your AR?

 

[enkindler]

I am fairly new to the AR platform (about two years due to the cost of running 308) but with ~5400 rounds down the pipe of a LMT lower Stag upper I have only had FTFs with good primer strikes (the ammo's not the gun's fault).

nothing that even required a remedial action. just Tap Rack Bang. A small container of lube is light...so why not have one in your 72 hour bag no matter what you are shooting?

 

[EHCRain10]

Got an Olympic Arms AR that has run perfectly for me even with the wolf steel case, just keep it clean and it wont let you down.
Olympic isnt known as the best AR manufacturer around and wolf can be downright horrible at times so the two of them working together should say something

 

[ScottG1911]

Keep your rifle properly cleaned and lubricated and it will work fine. people that do not understand the concept of scraping carbon build up off of their rifle, get jammed guns.

 

[Zak Smith]

Try searching for older threads. This has been covered many, many times. Short answer: a properly built AR-15 will run reliably for many thousands of rounds; self-fouling does not cause malfunctions; external debris going into the action of just about any semi-auto will cause problems; use good mags and good ammo.

-z

 

[HorseSoldier]

I've never had a problem keeping an M16 or M4 running with modest care.

Just how maintenance intensive AR type rifles are is another of those issues that the internet exaggerates wildly. There are exceptions to this rule -- I've seen some (improperly) home built ARs that had trouble getting through a whole magazine without stoppages, but an AR from a reputable manufacturer in good mechanical condition should not give the shooter problems.

 

[Deer Hunter]

I shoot IPSC with a group that will occasionally do a rifle side-match. Usually a rifle or carbine set-up. It's very fun, and I get to see all kinds of rifles get used.

I've seen M1As, AKs, M1 Carbines, Garands, but it seems to be dominated by the AR-15. A good 4 out of 5 guys will be using an AR-15. However...

Only about one or two of their ARs run properly. In fact, I was given a rifle to shoot a 100 yard rifle match with (two steel gongs, plus two targets just a few yards away). It was an AR-15, built on an A2 set-up. Carry handle, 20" barrel, free floated, etc etc. Guy put a lot of work on it.

However, it malfunctioned rather badly on me and I had to reshoot the course.

The last rifle match I participated in was a run-and-gun carbine match. There were your usual batch of rifles, but most of the guys were using their ARs. Two guys ran the course flawlessly. The rest of the four or five guys had AR problems. The guy running an M1 carbine was using underpowered ammo, and that was the only other malfunction I saw the entire time.

My AR I built this summer runs flawlessly with Wolf ammo and just the slightest little bit of lube (cheap stuff you find at wal-mart). It all depends on how you built it or which AR you purchase. There are a lot of companies out there that make ARs, so that means there will be a lot of problems with the AR-15 line of rifles simply because so many people make them. Don't let one bad apple spoil your experience. Do research, find out what parts increase reliability.

Things you should look for in an AR, from what I read before buying my parts.

M4 feed ramps: They work well and simply make sense.

Midlength or Rifle gas system: Carbine gas system tends to have problems.

Chrome lined barrel and/or chamber: A wonderful addition.

The rest is up to you.

 

[Omnivore]

I probably don't have 5400 rounds through any one AR, but I've had a Colt for many years, and we've have an RRA here for a couple years. The only stoppages on the COlt were after several hundred rounds without cleaning the action (bore only). Then it was a tendancy for failure to feed. The forward assist made it possible to continue with pauses. The RRA has yet to hickup once, but we take pretty good care of it.

That seems pretty good to me. If you take proper care, the AR is very reliable. If it was unreliable, you can bet the military would replace it. As it is, it's been tweaked here and there, and kept in service longer than any other U.S. battle rifle. It is a highly developed system.

I think a lot of the problems arise due to its popularity-- there are tons of small companies making various parts, and there are a lot of people assembling their own rifles. That's gotta result in some errors along the way, coupled with some of the magazines that were haistily made right before the "ban" went into effect 15 years ago.

There is another phenomenon resulting from the internet. You'll fire your rifle for years and never say much until you have a problem. Then you post on a forum about how it malfunctioned, and it gets repeated over and over; "Hey, I heard this one guy who had no end of trouble with his AR..."
"Yeah, I heard that too..."

Bad news gets reported disproportionally to good news. "I went to the range today and nothing happened" is not much of a story.

 

[chris in va]

I'd rather have my converted Saiga personally. Ammo availability would be my only concern.

 

[Lazuris]

No. The military would never use a stoner design because they havn't worked for the past 40 years.

 

[Shung]

my SDI M4 works quite well.. after 2000 rounds, mainly GP90, but also fiocchi, Wolf or Barnaul, I've had NO (that means 0 ) troubles or shooting incident with my M4

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Too many crap parts, crap builders, crap mags, crap maintenance, and crap ammo!

A good AR is pretty close to as reliable as a gun can get.

My old Colt SP-1 carbine has been running 100% for going on 38 years.

The only stoppage I can even remember was reload ammo related.

And even that could have been addressed with a foreword assist.
But the SP-1's didn't have them.

rcmodel

 

[Tarvis]

Good ammo with proper magazines in a properly assembled AR is a good combo. Some people have problems because they put it together wrong, some have bad mags and some can't figure out why wolf doesn't run in their gun.

 

[Captal_de_Buch]

I never have any problems with my ARs in 3-gun or High Power.

They are just like any other decent firearm, clean it, take care of it and learn how to use it.... and it will work for you.

Having said that, I've seen more than a few guys have problems with ARs.

The cause of most of the AR15 problems I've witnessed fell into 4 categories.

1. Improper care and cleaning
2. Bad ammunition in the form of poorly done reloads.
3. Bad mags, usually weak springs or boogered lips
4. Operator headspace, like slamming home an old Orlite mag on an open bolt.

 

[RooK]

I have both an AR (DPMS lower, Del-Ton M4 upper) and a converted
Saiga. I wouldn't feel lacking wither either one.

 

[kcmarine]

Buy an AR from a reputable manufacturer or build your own CORRECTLY from QUALITY, MIL-SPEC parts. Use good magazines and good ammo. Maintain properly.

Congratulations, you just assembled the best rig for self defense known to man.

 

[AK103K]

Too many crap parts, crap builders, crap mags, crap maintenance, and on and on.

Yup, like most clones, you aint got the "real" thing.

My old Colt SP-1 carbine has been running 100% for going on 38 years.

The only stoppage I can even remember was reload ammo related.

Ditto here. Mine was bought new in '74 for $225. Still going strong with many tens of thousands of rounds through it now. I know it had a malfunction at some point, but I cant remember any specific stoppages. That old Colt has had more than a thousand rounds through it at a session, most of it shot by multiple shooters and to the point the gun was so hot you couldnt hold on to it and it had to be set down to allow it to cool, and it never missed a beat.

I've shot a bunch of M16's of various flavors over the years, and a number of the clones, and only ever had trouble with a Bushmaster Dissapator and a couple of "kit" guns assembled by retards. If you buy guns made by reputable makers, clean and maintain them, just like any other gun, you wont have any troubles. The "crap parts, crap builders, crap mags, crap maintenance.." covers most all the problems

 

[marineman]

Yes. It is reliable enough.

 

[Frog48]

Depends... my Bushmaster runs like a top. The key with AR's is to keep them well lubed.

 

[dogngun]

Yes.


mark

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Mine work very reliably, that's all that matters to me.

 

[briansmithwins]

I shoot both an AK and an AR.

I'm thinking it depends on what type of SHTF scenario you are talking about. If all I have to maintain my rifle is a jar of hair grease and a rag, I'm thinking AK. If there is no problem with support materials (magazines, muzzle covers) and supplies (pipe cleaners, patches, chamber brushes) and the AR looks much better.

A Katrina type disaster where you have outbreaks of anarchy over a few weeks to a month or so: The AR is reliable enough. Mine has functioned 100% thru thousands of rounds at 3 gun matches and rifle class. Ergonomics are very good and the iron sights are easy to use.

A TEOTWAWKI thing where you are going to be on your own for years, and replacement parts are totally non-available? Then I want an AK. No small parts to break of loose (firing pin retaining pin, anyone?), able to function with amounts of crud in the action that would choke any other weapon, magazines that are tough enough to be used as a hammer, and all this in a light, handy package. What's not to like?

My AR is a pretty constantly 2MOA rifle. My AK gets about 3.5 to 4MOA. Either is perfectly fine for social work. I think M193 ball has an edge in terminal effectiveness over M67 ball. Optics are much easier to mount on the AR and mine wears an Aimpoint, with 8 years of battery life.

BSW

 

[Captal_de_Buch]

Kind of a SHTF after thought here.

If the S really did hit the F.. ammo availability would become an issue.

There is megatons of reloadable 223 brass floating around and components are readily available to load that caliber.

 

[HorseSoldier]

If you're really looking at going all Road Warrior and such, it's probably worth noting that there's also a much bigger supply of spare AR parts here in this country than there are AK parts. (However long shot and improbable that scenario may be.)

 

[Tyris]

Does a hobby horse have a wooden schlong?
Does the pope crap in the woods?

Thanks for a good laugh on a long afternoon waiting for the clock to strike 5pm..

-T