Is the General Social Attitude Toward Guns Changing?

[KBintheSLC]

I agree that many folks are finally opening their eyes to the reality of "gun control" and the pain it bestows on a society. However, I still recently lost a good friend over the course of the past 18 months as they gradually discovered that I had a passion for gun ownership.
Their passion for hating guns superseded our 12-year friendship. Sad really, but not sad enough to make me sell my guns.

 

[Rellian]

Can't you see the possibly of abuse here? Now that they KNOW you are a gun toter, or you want to be? Look at AU and the UK. Registration, then confiscation.

While I do see the possibility of abuse and will not argue that.... the thing we have that UK and AU did not is some semblance of a struggle between the Fed and States. CC permits have been the purview of states, not the fed (for the most part).
SCOTUS largely left it that way in not hearing most gun issues that were petitioned in that court. Hence until recently it has been a states right. This has been changing of late... with Heller, and talk of HR 45, Latin American Arms Treaty... etc;
But I would say there is enough of a feeling of "back off" out here in the west if they tried the confiscatory approach there might well be states that respond with a well known Greek phrase.

The thing to keep in mind is politics is about popularity. A government that has some CC citizens could look at confiscation. A government with a significant number of CC citizens becomes beholding (to an extent) to their wishes. Not necessarily because of the intimidation via firepower (although I'm sure it's on some political minds), but because of the intimidation via votes. There is strength in numbers.
Besides, they were already keeping records of gun sales when I was old enough to begin purchasing...... they have my info rather I obtained a CC permit or not.

 

[Polar Express]

Most of the replies in this thread are right on, seconding most all of them would be a reasonable reply in and of itself.

For my reply to the OP: I have seen folks that have openly vocally supported the lib party looking to buy handguns. One of these is a guy who thought Pres. BHO was going to be our savior. I do think more and more folks are learning this guy was running on empty promises. If the election were today, I don't think he'd get re-elected.

The references to Fmr. President Clinton and the AWB, I believe are close, but not right on the money. I think in hindsight, he would not have done that. I don't think it crossed his mind what the fallout was going to be. He had a flexible moral compass, which is NOT consistent with someone who does what he believes is right, regardless of the consequences. (they do what is in their interest at the time, such as getting re-elected). So, while his record indicates Clinton was the worst, I'm not sure it was because of his ideals, but more a result of political peer pressure and Dem. party excitement that they finally had enough votes to push it through, and didn't consider the ramifications. I suspect that BHO will run for a 2nd term, and if he gets it, will likely be more amenable to that type of legislation at that time, but that will also depend on the social attitudes of the populous. I don't think they will risk the 2-branch lock on the one issue.

With regards to the statement: "Look at AU and the UK. Registration, then confiscation."

Most folks are historically ignorant. Our culture has lost the value of teaching our own young historical facts. And as such, we are doomed to repeat them if we can't correct that gross error. AU and UK were not the first... It happened many years prior in the years just before WWII, when Hitler did the same in Germany. I'm not sure if that was the first with firearms, but it was certainly a lot earlier than AU or UK.

From my experience, most folks believe that WWII was a time of American greatness world wide. The whole free world loved America, and we were proud to be Americans when dealing with non-Americans.

So, I use examples from that time period that are documented facts:
1) Hitler's registration and confiscation
2) Japan's decision not to invade mainland USA because the Japanese governments' knowledge that US citizens were armed

This amazes people; (at least they act amazed), and they really don't have a logical comeback for it. I have had some emotional retorts, but we cannot defeat emotions with logic. It'll never happen. (try telling a mother her kid is ugly, and you'll see what I mean)

So, to try to sum up my reply, sure I think that there are some examples of our 2nd Amendment being bolstered, the simple fact of the sheer volume of CCW permits, firearms, ammunition, reloading supplies and equipment are a testament that there is still a strong and growing appreciation of our 2nd Amendment rights. But, on the flip side, one of the ways to make someone want something, is to tell them they can't have it, (or in this case, we're going to try and take it away), it's human nature. (remember high school and the cheerleader everyone wanted to date) If that's the reasoning behind the increased volume of sales and permit apps, then I'm OK with the fear: I believe the quote " The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance". I would like to see all the new owners take a proper class and course (education, not confiscation) on how to safely use and keep their new guns. But we can't mandate that, nor should we.

So if the 'fear' is what is driving this movement, then it's good, if more are prepared for unfortunate circumstances, then less will be un-prepared (how's that for wisdom?). Isn't that what was behind the original intent: the people keeping the gov't in check?

Don't get me wrong here, I don't want a state of national panic, I don't want to be afraid to go out of my home, but if a little fear gets people thinking, and learning, that can be a good thing. I don't like the gun and ammo prices any more than any other consumer does, but I'm a little afraid of the possibilities myself, and I am a bit more prepared than I was a year ago.

--- by the way, I don't recommend ever telling a mother that her kid is ugly, I was trying to make a point.

 

[Gryffydd]

One thing I've noticed is that Bush scared some liberals badly enough to remind them what the 2nd Amendment is really for.

 

[jfh]

an update on the recent polls

Today's Shooting Wire (one of those e-mail synopses of the latest 'gun news') includes a link to the NSSF's blog Aiming For Accuracy.

The latest blog entry--for May 8, 2009--is a summary of the most recent "gun control" polls. There have been no less than five major polls done since last November. ALL OF THEM SHOW THE SAME GENERAL RESULT-- The Public's Interest in Gun Control is at its lowest point in the last forty years.

Each of these polls--you can use the NSSF link to get a summary, plus a link to a Houston Chronicle summary--reinforce what we have said in this thread.

Four of the five are polls sponsored by, or done by--news organizations that have notable antigun perspectives. One would hope it will give them pause.

Jim H.

 

[runrabbitrun]

ALL OF THEM SHOW THE SAME GENERAL RESULT-- The Public's Interest in Gun Control is at its lowest in the last forty years.

Well then, there you have it.
This is really good news.

 

[hamourkiller]

Having watched the Gun control debate from 1970 onward. The main change to take place which has fundamentaly changed that debate is:
The absolute destruction of blood in the street hysterics used by the anti CCW crowd. Base level politicians (city, county, state etc) got their guts cut out by holding the party line. Gun fights at the OK Corral arguments went up against solid over time proof that CCW was a boon to civilised society. These politicians then had to eat crow and say "I was wrong"
From the time of Florida's must issue CCW bill passing until now, base level politicians that are rising in the ranks remember that crow taste and dont like it.
Few remember that Anne Richards veto of the Texas CCW put GW in office, but the politicians who supported her do.
Defeat after defeat on this issue, and no terrible consequences to the CCW passage in many states has gutted the zeal of this issue. Only the few older politicians want this battle, the young lions want easier prey.

 

[BretShooter]

Only the few older politicians want this battle, the young lions want easier prey.

Lets hope it stays that way. Old lions die off sooner.

 

[Glockman17366]

I think the trend has gone toward freedom.
People realize now, the government cannot protect them. Nor does the government have their best interests in mind...people realize that too.
One thing that really elps is the Internet...we're better organized and we have much better comunication then we had in 1994.

 

[10-Ring]

From the land of fruits & nuts (LA LA land), I can tell you that the attitude isn't changing but the fringe gun people are coming out & buying just in case something happens in the future & they can no longer buy/own something.

 

[Gottahaveone]

Or, with this apparent shift, will the politicos now get obfuscatory about their methodology knowing that we will oppose what they try?

My fears exactly. What you can't do thru open political means, you do thru International treaties which superceed the US Constitution.
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/us_constitution/gun_control/news.php?q=1240682709

 

[Dirtpile]

They see that places like Cleveland, with as much or more poverty, but where any non-criminal can own and CARRY a handgun are MUCH safer than Chicago and New York.

While that is true, you can bet you won't catch me anywhere near the east side, especially Euclid, after dark (again).
Nothing more fun than driving right into the middle of a gang fight. (Little Italy about five years ago.)

 

[BHP FAN]

I call BS on that poll.When I was a kid I could ride across town with my .22 across the handlebars of my bike.Just try that now.

 

[Magic_Man]

I see all these posts about the people realizing the gov't doesn't have our best interest in mind etc. No, they don't, but the people, as a whole, are dumb. The attitude is no changing on a large scale. The majority of the American public are stupid sheep. Sad but true...

 

[Deanimator]

While that is true, you can bet you won't catch me anywhere near the east side, especially Euclid, after dark (again).

I'm from the south side of Chicago. There's no place in Cleveland I'd actually call dangerous. East side of Cleveland? It's Lake Woebegone to me. I expect to see Garrison Keillor leading a cow down the middle of the street, singing about "Powdermilk Biscuits".

 

[chuckusaret]

Gun Facts

I used the following info package to support a conversation with a very anti gun group within my town recently. Not all, but six of the eight people have dropped their anti gun stand.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-screen.pdf

 

[Joe Demko]

...and it's common knowledge that the south side of Chicago is the baddest part of town. There's a Mr. Brown of whom you should be exceedingly cautious if you venture there.

 

[bunnielab]

I take heart in the fact that most of the "classic" pro gun control politicians are getting on in the years there don't seem to be many younger (say less then 50) ones replacing them.

 

[Gardien]

All Californians aren't Anti-2A

I'm a cursed pessimist. This country just elected the most anti-2A president in a generation, if not ever. I haven't been fortunate enough to encounter the type of people the OP details. My state is becoming increasingly liberal, and too many of the Californians who've moved here have brought their ideology with them.

I hope you're right.

I believe people are becoming more sympathetic to 2A rights. Although some did, I believe most voted against anything Bush, not for BO. Many that voted for the Annointed One and now seriously questionning themselves and regret doing so. This is not the change they were looking for. We will have a chance to counter ths in the 2010 elections and take back at least one of the two Houses.

I moved my family here precisely because of the oppressive ideology of the Peoples Republic of California. We are libertarians in spirit and Coloradans at heart. I have my CCW and carry CC whenever I'm out and OC whenver at home. Without exception, people are supportive. The Gadsden flag I fly on my house also gets the point across to anyone who drives by as to where we stand.

Keep up the fight.

 

[Polar Express]

can he do that?

Hey, Gottahaveit,

I took a read at that link you posted, and I find it interesting. I'm not sure if I'm scared yet, because I'm uninformed enough to know for sure if he (BHO) as the president actually has the authority to userp the Constitution. Especially since our Constitution is the supreme law of our land and he swore an oath to uphold it during his inauguration.

I am very convinced the antis are willing to come at their agenda from the 'blind' side, but can they actually get that to fly?

 

[Rellian]

but can they actually get that to fly?

There have been discussions on the CIFTA treaty here at THR. A number of the threads got smacked down because they went too far into political debate. The truth of things thou is they can do whatever we let them. Some states are moving right now to legislatively preempt this treaty within their borders,...... but really no one knows what will happen till we get there.

 

[Average Joe]

Because people in this country have such a high morality standard, the criminals are getting away with more and more. Most states are getting rid of the death penalty, and the ones that still have it, don't use it. So , a lot of criminals go to jail, then get let out early, and start the crime cycle all over again. As law abiding citizens, we have to protect ourselves, the criminals are overwhelming us, there seems no end to this madness, and the liberals are starting to realize, that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

 

[Harve Curry]

Is the General Social Attitude Toward Guns Changing?

We need more exhibition shooters, to replace watching golf or cement setting. We need more Annie Oakley's, Ad Topperwiens, Jeff Cooper's, Thell Reed's, Bob Munden's to name a few.

We need more gallery shoots at fair grounds and parks to replace imitations of it played with your fingers & thumbs on video games.

We need a national organization to buy and manage shooting ranges before they get closed down. Every shooting range should have a Pro Shop (for lack of a better word).

We need a stimulus package that would put 1 million dollars in a trust account for each head of house hold and it would have to be spent within 6 months or you loose it.

 

[Mr. Bojangles]

I work in a hospital (traditionally not a firearm-friendly business) and have noticed, at least among my coworkers, an increased interest in firearms, especially among females. A group of us from work have a weekly outing to the local range (often ten or more people), with both new people and those new to firearms showing up at nearly every outing.
With everything else going on in this country and around the world I have found these outings to be encouraging and enjoyable.

 

[Dirtpile]

There's no place in Cleveland I'd actually call dangerous.

I never said Cleveland or even Euclid was like South Central in the mid-late 90's, but that doesn't mean I'd be hanging out around E. 200th at night.
You also won't find me in Lakewood, but that's for "other" reasons.