Is there an FFL equvilent to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

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Yoda

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While driving from Fort Walton Beach to Tampa today, I stopped by the gun show in Tallahassee. I saw some guys at the show who seemed (to my innocent eyes) to have gang-related tatoos. I wonder what the dealer's rights would be if he decided to refuse to make a sale to anyone who wore (what appeared to be) a gang-related tatoo.

- - - Yoda
 
I dunno about anywhere else, but to my knowledge, locally (alabama) all retailers have that right... it isnt denying their right to buy a gun, only the availability of said guns through that FFL... I have seen done it several times to customers who are being disrespectful to the employees.
 
I'd say they are allowed to refuse in taht situation, since they have reason to believe there is a good chance that person is a felon or would commit a crime with it.
 
I believe that anyone selling a firearm legally has the right to refuse a sale if they think that the person buying it is A. not responcible enough to own a firearm . B. think they are buying it for someone else (straw purchase ) . C. the buyer is intending or planing something felonious. D. is intoxicated at the time of purchase . etc. etc. etc. . So basicly if the person buying the gun seems off to the seller they legally can refuse a sale based on a non prejudice reason and even the owner of the store can't sale them a firearm for 24 hours.


At least that is the way it was when I was working at wal-mart a few years ago when they still sold firearms .
 
I saw some guys at the show who seemed (to my innocent eyes) to have gang-related tatoos. I wonder what the dealer's rights would be if he decided to refuse to make a sale to anyone who wore (what appeared to be) a gang-related tatoo.

I don't disagree with the basic concept, since a store owner is and should be free to run his store as he sees fit within the law.

However, nothing personal, but a lot of folks tend to say "gang related tattoos" while not knowing much about tattoos. It's entirely possible that they were just regular tattoos, which aren't uncommon among various subcultures these days. Plus various tattoos that used to be prison tattoos have been watered down by popular culture, so there are people who have, say, spiderwebs on the elbow just because they look cool.

There's a difference between noting actual troubling signs and deciding not to sell, and "not my kind of person" and alienating potential customers. My buddy's friend in Austin had a gunshop sell him .38 Super for his revolver, despite him clearly describing his gun, apparently as a "boy, get a load of that dreadlocked hippie I sold auto-pistol ammo to! Won't it be funny when he can't load his gun!"


Sure, you get better service if you blend in to the "local culture", and some folks do have troubling connections and like to broadcast them clearly. However, a lot of folks just look slightly unusual but aren't harmful, and getting and keeping those folks in the pro-gun camp is better for our community then ticking them off and leaving them thinking that shooting is "just a white redneck thing".
 
Also, even if they were "gang related" tattoos, that doesn't mean that the individual wearing them is currently in a gang.

A good friend of mine had a seriously rough life growing up and was involved in some situations and "social groups" that are generally best left alone. Now, fifteen years later he owns his own company and is a productive member of society. But he's still got the ink from when he was a wild-a$$ youngster.

So it's not always the best policy to judge on sight.
 
Equal rights apply to things like race, gender, and the like.

Not who will sell you what product or merchandise.

I understand that not everyone with tatoos are gang-bangers, but it seems like some folks try to look like thugs.

That's true, I guess. But what they look like isn't necessarily who they are. While I agree that one's appearance to the outside world is a part of how they're judged, there needs to be more to that as well. To many people, I look like a thug. I have a mohawk, am heavily tattooed (as is my fiancee), I wear somewhat baggy clothes, and drive a car with band stickers all over it.

But guess what? I'm a student, haven't ever been arrested for anything, come from a good home, and make sure to pay all my bills on time.

Crazy, huh?
 
When I had my FFL There was a section in one of the pamphlets they gave me that stated an FFL can refuse to sell to anyone they feel like and they are protected by federal law. In other words if an FFL refuses to sell to you there is no legal recourse you can take against them.
 
so, this turned into a dont judge a book by its cover? it doesnt matter what they look like, sound like, smell like, or any other characteristic. if the owner just doesnt like them for any reason.... he/she doesnt have to sell them anything. that is just the way it is.. so next time you go to a gun shop, smile and be polite.
 
aside from finishing a transaction that has already started (such as the FFL has said yes to a transfer, and your gun has shown up...FFL has said yes to a repair and has logged your gun in) the FFL has no legal obligation to take your money and provide you with services
 
no, he posed a question that stemmed from someones appearance this was later into dont judge someone by their appearance... that is in no way answering his question.

my point is simply answering his question... the owner/manager can judge all he/she wants.... if they do not want to sell a gun to someone, regardless of the reason, they have that right and do not have to justify it to anyone.
 
Is there an FFL equvilent to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

Yes, there is. It's called, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

The only difference is the period at the end, vice the question mark. :D
 
Under some circumstances, the dealer could be held liable if he sells to someone obviously "wrong", such as mentally disturbed, under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or who expresses intent to commit a crime ("I'm gonna shoot that $@^&...!").

This is assuming that the NICS check comes back OK; if it does not, obviously the dealer can't sell the gun.

Jim
 
As a private seller, I have been approached quite a few times by people of dubious character, appearance and behavior. A tripling of my asking price seems to get rid of them nice and quickly.
 
I don't think that a store has a right to refuse a sale to anyone of questionable character. I think that they have an OBLIGATION to refuse the sale to said person. If they're wrong, so be it. If they're right and forced to sell the gun (or ammo) by law; well it makes us all look bad and plays right into what the antis want.

Wyman
 
Has the ACLU ever come to the aid of a person who wanted to buy a gun, but was discriminated against doing so? I can't imagine.
 
But if FFLs are "federal"... then would federal law on "equal rights" over-ride state laws?

An FFL is just a license to conduct business in firearms. There's nothing about it that requires you to sell anything to anyone. Matter of fact, the BATFE provides a perfect out for any FFL holder to not make a sale because no sale that is considered suspect is supposed to be made. Don't like the cut of your clothes because they're suspiciously "thug-like"? Not supposed to make the sale. Think the tats are suspiciously gang related? Not supposed to make the sale.

But, I'll agree with MV. There are plenty of young, and not so young, folks that have tattoos and dress "funny" and there's not a thing wrong with selling them a firearm.
 
But if FFLs are "federal"... then would federal law on "equal rights" over-ride state laws?

An FFL is just a license to conduct business in firearms. There's nothing about it that requires you to sell anything to anyone. Matter of fact, the BATFE provides a perfect out for any FFL holder to not make a sale because no sale that is considered suspect is supposed to be made. Don't like the cut of your clothes because they're suspiciously "thug-like"? Not supposed to make the sale. Think the tats are suspiciously gang related? Not supposed to make the sale.

But, I'll agree with MV. There are plenty of young, and not so young, folks that have tattoos and dress "funny" and there's not a thing wrong with selling them a firearm.
 
Nothing to prevent an FFL holder from not going through with a sale based on a "gut feeling". The BATFE encourages them to use just such impressions.

BUT, as MV said there are plenty of young, and not so young, folks with "strange" tattoos and "funny" clothes that would not only pass a NICS check, but a much more serious background check. Let's not be too prejudicial.
 
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