Is this OK or am I flirting with trouble...

[rbernie]

you are selling it to a person and not actually giving it to them so you have knowingly entered the gray area and could be held culpable.

How? What laws will have been broken?

Do you have any examples where this has happened?

 

[earlthegoat2]

I would still avoid this transaction as you are selling it to a person and not actually giving it to them so you have knowingly entered the gray area and could be held culpable.

If you would quote my whole statement you will see I have worded it in the form of an opinion.

By saying

could be held culpable

I mean that I have no idea what a jury or prosecutor is going to decide looking at it from the standpoint of hyperanalyzing every step that was taken in the transaction and even though the letter of the law was followed there were indicators in place that could have raised some red flags.

It is like buying merchandise for prices below market value. Maybe it is stolen. Maybe not. Ask no questions and hand over your money and book. Some would say a law was broken and some would say technically no law was broken. Depending on the jurisdiction and the amount of money you paid you may or may not have broken the law. It does not mean you just bought stolen merchandise. THat is for someone else to prove.

Bottom line, I (as in ME) would not make the transaction.

Anyway try to understand the point as I am not tuning back into this thread. I dont spend much time in the Legal section anyway and I always hesitate to post. Maybe I will hesitate harder next time.

 

[CoRoMo]

What charges would bring you in front of a jury or prosecutor?
You don't need to run away, just help us make sense of what you are posting here.

 

[Oyeboten]

If the would be purchaser submitted to the seller, an avadavit attesting to his being legally fit to own the arm, and, that the currier is only a trusted currier?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Assuming the gun is paid for when you ship it to his FFL you,re finished with the transaction at that point. If the buyer, who is now the owner, fails the background check he can't pick the gun up, or physically posses it, but he is still the owner. Suggest he arrange with his FFL to consign the gun for sale to someone else or pay to ship the gun to another FFL who will consign it but the original owner is out of the picture. He sold the gun legally and has no further obligation.

Actually, that is the correct answer to what happens if the gun is shipped to an FFL and the buyer does not pass the NICS check! I stand corrected... Thank you!

 

[NavyLCDR]

I guess I do not see it as any different than selling to the original purchaser and then having them straw it to a felon friend of theirs. Or just unknowingly selling it to a felon for that matter.

I would still avoid this transaction as you are selling it to a person and not actually giving it to them so you have knowingly entered the gray area and could be held culpable.

And I guess I don't see it as any different then selling it to the purchaser and having FEDEX deliver the gun to them. The person in the middle is only a courier, just like FEDEX would be, or a private courier service would be, or any other shipping company would be. Shipments of firearms between persons residing in the same state are perfectly legal.

 

[mgkdrgn]

It would be a "straw purchase" ... if you were an FFL.

However, since you are not, you are not legally obligated to do much of anything in an in-state purchase. (at elast not via federal law, your state laws may be entierly different)

If you are concerned about it, ship it to an FFL close to the buyer and have him complete the transaction. However, don't be suprised of the extra expense of doing that scotches the deal.

 

[StarDust1]

A private party sale to a person that you believe, or know, to NOT be barred by law from purchasing is a green light in my state, yours?
A red flag would be DOUBT of any kind! Good luck....

 

[GunsBeerFreedom]

To me, someone who is not a lawyer, the problem is not whether you are certain of the buyers background or not, but the issue of private sales across state lines, which is to my understanding, illegal without a FFL involved.

 

[CoRoMo]

This thread has nothing to do with private sales across state lines.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

oops

 

[miestro_jerry]

These days, I try to sell at gun shows and to dealers. At the gunshow I want to see a drivers license to make sure the person is of legal age and if it a 35 year old lady, she will probably smile at you for asking if she is old enough.

Jerry

 

[Quoheleth]

Comments

Both I and the interested party are in TX. I checked with my local FFL guy. He won't even waste his time to send it for me. He told me if I am worried about it, send it directly to the interested party's FFL. He said even if he had USPS deliver the gun, that flat-rate box plus insurance plus his fee would almost be the same as UPS or FEDEX.

I'm on the east side of Houston. He's north of Dallas. Someone said, "Why not just deliver it." Well, that's a day's vacation lost in driving plus fuel. Even if he meets me half-way, it's still a blown day and still most of a tank of gas.

The interested party is a Texas CHL holder, so he has undergone a series of background checks.

I told him, in brief:
1. He had to be able to buy & own a handgun in TX (CHL = check)
2. He had to send me a copy of the CHL for my review, to be returned to him with the gun
3. His buddy had to present a copy of his DL or CHL for my records and sign a receipt that he was taking possession as courier for transport from me to purchasing individual.
4. A signed bill of sale by both he and me.

I think he understood what I am doing (CYA). Now, he has to see if his buddy is willing to be the courier for us.

Q

 

[CoRoMo]

You are certainly going far above and well beyond what is necessary. If they are willing to jump through all of your required hoops, it sounds like you've made a deal.

 

[NotSoFast]

I don't like the sound of that.

I'm for shipping it to his local FFL and let them do the checks for you. You are far safer and your gun doesn't get into the wrong hands that way.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't like the sound of that.

I'm for shipping it to his local FFL and let them do the checks for you. You are far safer and your gun doesn't get into the wrong hands that way.

A perfect illustration of the difference between California and the free United States!

 

[blackwalnut]

It is better to err on the side of caution I would stay away from this transaction. You will find another buyer just be patient. Let me guess this potential sale is almost too good to be true. In other words they are probably not haggling too much and the person told you I cant find one of these in my area. You are probably scratching your head why cant you find one of these (fill in the blank with the name of a common firearm) that everyone sells. Stay away. Be like the deer in the woods that stops and all of a sudden walks away in the opposite direction from your stand. If you are hesitant something probably stinks about this. You dont need an attorney for this your guts are telling you its no good.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Again, I ask... what the hell is the difference in giving the gun to the buyer's chosen driver and dropping the gun off at UPS or Lone Star Overnight for shipment?

 

[miestro_jerry]

For all of the effort on doing this transaction, I could have sold it somewhere else by now.

Jerry

 

[Sam1911]

This is getting a bit tiresome. It is legal, according to all we've been told. All due diligence (and far more) has been done.

If the OP is convinced of the law, he should proceed.

If he has personal red flags he hasn't shared, he should go with his gut.

We don't need a poll to ask how many are still too trepidatious to follow the letter of the law.