Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
You're assuming several facts not in evidence. Who says we can't elect pro-gun politicians?
ISP trooper pleads guilty
- Thread starter Soybomb
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Deanimator
Member
Do they ENFORCE those "unconstitutional laws" AGAINST "other citizens", sometimes through the use of lethal force?
It's like Marion Berry. I didn't care if he smoked crack. I cared that he smoked crack while he was having OTHER people ARRESTED for smoking crack.
Anyone BUT these troopers would get hard time for the same offense, which THEY themselves would arrest a civilian for, without a hint of mercy. Why should those who display no mercy to lawbreakers receive mercy when they themselves break the law?
For me to have one particle of sympathy for these troopers would be like me feeling sorry for the Menendez brothers because they're orphans.
Again, the bleating of "anyone other than these cops would get hard time" for this offense is quite amusing.
ANYONE, with a clean criminal history, a guilty plea excepting responsibility, and no other extenuating factors would be at the bottom of the sentencing guidelines, and likely to do very little, or no time in jail, followed a period of supervised release.
I fail to understand the BS cop hating rhetoric, which has ZERO basis in reality.
ANYONE, with a clean criminal history, a guilty plea excepting responsibility, and no other extenuating factors would be at the bottom of the sentencing guidelines, and likely to do very little, or no time in jail, followed a period of supervised release.
I fail to understand the BS cop hating rhetoric, which has ZERO basis in reality.
Deanimator
Member
For unlawful possession of an automatic weapon... In Illinois, yeah, sure.
billwiese
Member
Hang 'em high.
No two-tiered justice. Many folks have gone to jail for fair stints - along with fines and mandatory lifetime loss of firearms rights - for simple possession issues (i.e., no violent crime or other illlegal activity associated).
I can't wait for some more CA cops to be busted on AW violations. If the proles like me have to live by the law, the cops must too.
Bill Wiese
San Jose
No two-tiered justice. Many folks have gone to jail for fair stints - along with fines and mandatory lifetime loss of firearms rights - for simple possession issues (i.e., no violent crime or other illlegal activity associated).
I can't wait for some more CA cops to be busted on AW violations. If the proles like me have to live by the law, the cops must too.
Bill Wiese
San Jose
"Cop hating rhetoric"
DMF,
Then try inserting this, after "ANYONE":
"whose freely chosen job entails arresting, and imprisoning, fellow citizens for doing exactly what was done here,"
If you accept a position as a Trusty in the concentration camp, you can't expect a lot of sympathy from the other prisoners when you get bit by the rules you enforce on everybody else.
DMF,
Then try inserting this, after "ANYONE":
"whose freely chosen job entails arresting, and imprisoning, fellow citizens for doing exactly what was done here,"
If you accept a position as a Trusty in the concentration camp, you can't expect a lot of sympathy from the other prisoners when you get bit by the rules you enforce on everybody else.
I fail to understand why pointing out the blatant unfairness of a two tiered criminal justice system is cop hating. I think they should get whatever the average sentence is plus one year for violating their oath of office and the trust we placed in them. That seems fair.
DKSuddeth
Member
here's a simple litmus test to determine if there is a two tiered system.
Illinois cop with an unregistered machine gun, no crimes commited with said MG, and clean record with honors in law enforcement.
Illinois resident with unregistered machine gun, commited no crime with said MG, an clean record with notable town honors for good voluntary service.
Who's going to prison longer?
Remember, I'm not talking about what would be 'fair', i'm talking about what would be 'real'.
Second thing to remember, would there have been police chiefs and politicians writing letters on behalf of the citizen to drop the charges?
Illinois cop with an unregistered machine gun, no crimes commited with said MG, and clean record with honors in law enforcement.
Illinois resident with unregistered machine gun, commited no crime with said MG, an clean record with notable town honors for good voluntary service.
Who's going to prison longer?
Remember, I'm not talking about what would be 'fair', i'm talking about what would be 'real'.
Second thing to remember, would there have been police chiefs and politicians writing letters on behalf of the citizen to drop the charges?
Yes, but the vast majority of people prosecuted on weapons charges, both state and federal, are prosecuted for being a felon in possession (most states have a statute similar to the fed statute), and therefore they are not people with no criminal record, and therefore are not the type who would be at the bottom of the sentencing guidelines if they were charged in federal court with illegally possessing a machine gun.
In fact at the federal level many people prosecuted under the "felon in possession statute" meet the definition of an Armed Career Criminal, which means they get a 15 year MINIMUM sentence, which skews the 51 month figure even further.
Therefore your median number for all gun convictions is irrelevant to the discussion of what sentence someone with a clean record would get after pleading guilty to illegally possessing a machine gun.
The BS assumption that these guys will get less time than a non-cop, especially when combined with the bogus claims that others with similar sentencing criteria would automatically get stiff sentences is most definitely cop hating. If someone were making realistic claims about the sentencing process in federal court I wouldn't have a problem with it, but the whining about non-cops automatically doing "hard time" and claims these guys will get off easy, are definite signs of cop hating.
Everything being equal other than where they were employed the last few years, they're going to do the same amount of time. Which given what is known about this defendant, is little or no jail time, coupled with a period of supervised release. The only thing that could be different is if the judge departed from the sentencing guidelines, and in this case since it's likely he will do little or no time a departure would likely be one that resulted in more time than the guidelines provide for.
Yeah, you're right it's federal and being in the state of Illinois does not affect the sentencing guidelines in federal court. But why let a little thing like facts in the real world get in the way of the BS rhetoric.
This thread proves many folks will ignore reality to rant on about their own warped view of the world.
Daniel T
Member
Talk about a warped world view and BS rhetoric. Do you think that...
...will have no effect on the final sentence? Yes? No? Why or why not?
...will have no effect on the final sentence? Yes? No? Why or why not?
crazed_ss
Member
DMF, I think the double standard is clear when you look at the support these guys are getting from high ranking politicians and law enforcement officials.
If Joe Citizen got busted for the same offense, do you honestly believe 10 police cheifs and 2 senators would be writing letters asking for leniency?!
Not in this lifetime..
They'd be talking about how ownership of the weapons will not be tolerated in the great state of Illinios and they'd hold press conferences celeberating the fact that "another deadly machinegun is off the streets".
If Joe Citizen got busted for the same offense, do you honestly believe 10 police cheifs and 2 senators would be writing letters asking for leniency?!
Not in this lifetime..
They'd be talking about how ownership of the weapons will not be tolerated in the great state of Illinios and they'd hold press conferences celeberating the fact that "another deadly machinegun is off the streets".
shell70634
Member
The police officers are citizens. Whether they broke the law or not, they are entitled to the best defense they can muster. Part of that defense is having friends who can use political pressure to lighten the sentence. Similar to plea bargaining, but more visible to the public.
Those who think they should be let off can vote that way when they sit on the jury, and those that want to hang them can vote the other way.
Those who think they should be let off can vote that way when they sit on the jury, and those that want to hang them can vote the other way.
DKSuddeth
Member
There have been numerous individuals who have been sentenced for violating 922 (o) so we'll wait til this guys sentenced, then we'll compare.
I think it proves a fair number of people believe there is a multi-tiered system of justice out there where some pigs are more equal than others (no slur on cops intended BTW-just a reference to a well known quote). If you want to call that cop bashing, I guess you can.
I think most of us are adult enough to recognize that the criminal justice system has a few warts. And how the enforcers are treated when they misbehave is one of them.
BTW, I do not claim to know how to deal effectively with that particular problem. It seems clear to me that while it is not as pervasive a problem as some seem to think, it is a far greater problem than others want to admit.
BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
Member
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They broke the law,yes, but 10 years in prison I dont think so, should be punished slap on the wrists but thats it.
It amazes me that owning an unregistered machine gun will get you 10 years, but when a friend of mine was raped the ****** that did it got probation and he was found guilty didint even do a day in prison. Whats wrong with this system?
It amazes me that owning an unregistered machine gun will get you 10 years, but when a friend of mine was raped the ****** that did it got probation and he was found guilty didint even do a day in prison. Whats wrong with this system?
Deanimator
Member
Of course "where they were employed the last few years" is being used as an excuse by some to try to make things UNequal. But you knew that...
As guardians of the laws which they've been entrusted to uphold, they should receive a harsher sentence for violating that trust.
I can't believe some people here actually think that their sentence should be lighter. Police favoratism at best, and outright dangerous bias at worst.
And no, it's not because I hate cops. But when I see a man or woman in uniform, I expect them to act with integrity and knowledge of the laws which they enforce.
These guys are either criminals who knew the law and broke it, or ignorant criminals, because ignorance is not, has not been, and will never be a valid defense.
I can't believe some people here actually think that their sentence should be lighter. Police favoratism at best, and outright dangerous bias at worst.
And no, it's not because I hate cops. But when I see a man or woman in uniform, I expect them to act with integrity and knowledge of the laws which they enforce.
These guys are either criminals who knew the law and broke it, or ignorant criminals, because ignorance is not, has not been, and will never be a valid defense.
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