Israel now arming civilians after Hamas attack

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Having a rifle is only half of the equation. Training is the other.

The attack was a coordinated terror attack of people that prepared for it. Coordinated defense against many armed assailants would require training, and not just some training. It is not just about taking up field positions and having marksman skills but working together as a group.
Arming the population, or considering a population already armed, doesn’t just affect the ability of the armed defenders, it also affects the actions of the attackers who understand they are going into battle with armed opponents versus attacking unarmed civilians.

Taiwan government really needs to see this reality FAST!
 
Israel is arming their people as a matter of national survival. They are a tiny nation surrounded by enemies poised to attack. America doesn't face that threat to our survival so we won't see any national level action on loosening our gun laws.
 
The Gentle Readers should probably note this:
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> Inbar Lieberman rushed to open the armory, distributed guns to the 12-member
>security team and coordinated their decisive response amid the unfolding attack.

It would appear that while the weapons were not initially in the hands of the
defenders, there was at least the concept of a trained citizen militia at hand....

Shades of the `48 war

Interesting.

Look up what a "kibbutz" is. Basically, it's a commune.
 
It would be SO easy for 200 bad guys, out of the millions who have walked across our border, to gather and coordinate an attack on a small Texas town. With the same level of ruthlessness as the Israel attacks, total devastation and 100s of deaths could be achieved in a single day. This is not SHTF doom and gloom. It is possible. Israel is proof it is possible. Of course 911 is also proof it can happen. Our leaders don't care about who is coming into our country and the surely don't care about any small podunk Texas town. They DO care about disarming the small podunk Texas town though.

And our government will publicly act TOTALLY surprised!!🙄🤡
 
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Having a rifle is only half of the equation. Training is the other.

The attack was a coordinated terror attack of people that prepared for it. Coordinated defense against many armed assailants would require training, and not just some training. It is not just about taking up field positions and having marksman skills but working together as a group.
Which is why the militia is supposed to be "well regulated."
 
Like most, I've closely followed the carnage in Israel (and I'll be following the response by that country to the attack as it unfolds). The one item that struck me is the reliance on "safe rooms" and or small bunkers within the residences of those attacked and slaughtered... Creating a "safe space" - with no means of defending it (or escaping it if under total breaching assault) was and is a very bad situation for those victims. I'll be interested to learn how folks in that small country will design and build them in the future. My guess is that there will be a new emphasis on residential security that emphasizes the ability to defend it with armed force - then an escape method when the house can no longer be defended...

Anyone with additional info please chime in. I can't imagine living in a place that's under the kind of threat we've seen so far...
 
Further to my post #6 in this thread I want to add a little explanation. Israel had these terrorist attacks since decades and I remember one incident, I think it happened in the 1960s, when an older man defended the kibbutz successfully against several attackers that carried AK 47s. The Israeli had a K98k and fired with great discipline, as he was taught in the military. The courage came from the heart, not the training, though.
 
Maybe not here but it did in Finland and Sweden. Probably Poland too.

They're a wee bit closer to the action than we are.

Historically speaking, the United States has not always been very concerned with what other countries do simply because we have two big honkin' oceans that require 3,000 miles or more of travel over in order to bring their problems here. We were very much isolationists for a huge part of our history as a nation.

It really wasn't until we finally got it in our heads that the world really is connected enough on a global scale to require our active participation globally.

However, we STILL enjoy the benefits of those two big honkin' oceans with respect to direct physical threats to us as a people from "boots on the ground" attacks.
 
No, it won't change perception of guns in the US. If we lived under constant threat of a military invasion from Canada or Mexico, we'd probably have a different outlook. Its important to not overlook that in the US in 2020, it was estimated there's over 400 million arms circulating in private hands.
 
I was shocked to learn that Israel is generally an unarmed country. Nearly all adults there undergo military training, and presumably are competent with firearms. To be trained, surrounded by enemies, and legally required to go unarmed nearly defies belief.
I was surprised to learn this as well... I never looked into it, but assumed they had very loose gun laws over there. I remember seeing this picture of a school teacher wearing a rifle as she escorted her students on a field trip in Israel, and thought they must be pretty smart about actually protecting themselves. I guess I was wrong, and this was just one of those rare exceptions.
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The changes to their gun laws are so minimal and grudging so as not be any kind of benefit to a beleaguered people.
They still have to prove a need to own a gun (even as the slaughter there continues), and can only own one gun. And they've
generously increased the amount of ammo from 50 rounds (yes you read that right) a year to 150 rounds per year. So, thanks a lot.
 
They're a wee bit closer to the action than we are.

Historically speaking, the United States has not always been very concerned with what other countries do simply because we have two big honkin' oceans that require 3,000 miles or more of travel over in order to bring their problems here. We were very much isolationists for a huge part of our history as a nation.

It really wasn't until we finally got it in our heads that the world really is connected enough on a global scale to require our active participation globally.

However, we STILL enjoy the benefits of those two big honkin' oceans with respect to direct physical threats to us as a people from "boots on the ground" attacks.
Yeah, I know about the oceans. But I think people are beginning to wonder about who has walked - using their boots on the ground so to speak - across the border recently and whether they have brought any problems here. Estimates are 5.5 million in 2022 and 2023 so far. There is no way anybody knows who and where they are.
 
Israelis have depended on their government to protect them and the government has enforced that with gun laws.
Guess they were both wrong..?

And, No , the anti gun people here won't change their minds.
And neither will I.
Most of the anti gun people are rooting for Palestine. They are rejoicing right along with Hamas. Frickin nutballs.
 
It would be SO easy for 200 bad guys, out of the millions who have walked across our border, to gather and coordinate an attack on a small Texas town. With the same level of ruthlessness as the Israel attacks, total devastation and 100s of deaths could be achieved in a single day. This is not SHTF doom and gloom. It is possible. Israel is proof it is possible. Of course 911 is also proof it can happen. Our leaders don't care about who is coming into our country and the surely don't care about any small podunk Texas town. They DO care about disarming the small podunk Texas town though.

And our government will publicly act TOTALLY surprised!!🙄🤡
Pancho Villa invaded the US in 1916 and attacked the small town of Columbus New Mexico. That caused such a hullabaloo the President Wilson invaded Mexico.

These are some of the field artillery General Pershing took on the invasion.

Hf9oRRv.jpg


Mexico was in a state of Civil War at the time, and the only thing the factions agreed on, was how much they hated Americans, and wanted the Americans out of their Country. Similar to what happened with the US invasion of Lebanon in 1982. It turned into a real can or worms as the American Army could control big cities, but not the country side, and they could not catch Pancho Villa.

We left Mexico in about the same way we left Lebanon. We declared victory, and ran away as fast as we could.

I don't know how the Israeli - Palestinian conflict will end. or even, if it will end. Multiculturalism and assimilation have failed in the Middle East, these people will not hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
 
It would be SO easy for 200 bad guys, out of the millions who have walked across our border, to gather and coordinate an attack on a small Texas town. With the same level of ruthlessness as the Israel attacks, total devastation and 100s of deaths could be achieved in a single day. This is not SHTF doom and gloom. It is possible. Israel is proof it is possible. Of course 911 is also proof it can happen. Our leaders don't care about who is coming into our country and the surely don't care about any small podunk Texas town. They DO care about disarming the small podunk Texas town though.

And our government will publicly act TOTALLY surprised!!🙄🤡
What happened in Israel is literally nothing in scale compared to what could relatively easily be done here by a hand-full of coordinated attackers. We are ALL on literal life support in the form of the electrical grid due to the inability to produce, preserve, and distribute food without electricity. This is by far the biggest existential threat to the US.

There are a couple of very vulnerable areas, and due to government incompetence, the grid isn't hardened against either. One is an EMP attack via a simple nuclear weapon being detonated a couple hundred miles above the US. This has been studied in detail by the US EMP Commission. The EMP Commission was created by Congress in 2001. The commission is formally known as the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack. The Commission brought together notable scientists and technologists to compile several reports. In 2008, the EMP Commission released the “Critical National Infrastructures Report”. This report describes the likely consequences of a nuclear EMP on civilian infrastructure.

The findings and conclusions of this report to Congress are more scary than any localized event could ever be (except for those few people caught up in the localized event, of course). CLIFF'S NOTES: The result of a strong EMP attack (such as a relatively simple, easy to build but harder to deliver nuclear weapon being exploded 200 miles above the Central US would be 90% of the US population dead within one year. The deaths would be due to the fact that the electrical grid and essentially everything that uses electricity to function (vehicles, refineries, food production and storage, transportation, etc., etc.) will never work again unless/until many of the electrical components are replaced, which is essentially impossible due to the massive number of parts required and the years it'd take for some foreign country to build them. We are all on life support in the form of the electrical grid. Both Obama and Trump recommended that measures be taken to harden the grid against EMP (and also Coronal Mass Ejections from the Sun, another source of the same end result), but the individual electrical power companies don't want to go to the trouble and expense, and the government hasn't mandated it.

Full report: http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf
Executive summary: http://www.empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf

Back to the 200 bad guys comment, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) says that there are 30 critical Substations in the US electrical grid, and that if any 9 of them are taken out of commission, the grid could go down for weeks, up to 18 months or more. When the snipers took out the Silicon Valley substation a few years ago, it was believed by some to be a test to see how easily a Substation could be brought down by rifle fire. It was child's play, according to authorities. Just some guys in the surrounding hills with rifles firing on the station for a few minutes.

The biggest existential threat to the inhabitants of the US is our own government's corruption and incompetence. Mostly the corruption, IMO, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out what needs to be done in a lot of these situations.
 
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I was also surprised to learn that Israel had such strict gun control. I don't remember where I got my misconception from but I thought I had once read that Israeli citizens were encouraged to keep their service weapon after completing their mandatory military service. I saw reporting yesterday that only 2% of the population of israel has a permit to own a firearm. For a country in their position that is mind boggling to me.
 
Israel should have known better than to disarm its citizens. Now they've learned the hard way.
I have discussed this with countless people; if every Jewish adult male living in Europe owned a Mauser there would not have been millions of Jews forced onto trains to concentration camps and their deaths.

If every adult male living in Africa in the 1400s to 1700s owned a musket, there would not have been a viable slave trade with ships sailing to the Americas with entire captured families and villages as slaves.

Israel, of all people alive today, surrounded by a billion people that want them wiped off the face of the earth, should have every adult fully armed and participating in weekly training drills.

What mental illness is it that leads people to ignore the lessons of history?
 
It’s just amazing Israel didn’t see this coming. Must have been world class planning and execution by the bad guys to pull off something SO big and effective. (sadly) But at least now they can throw 10 thousand rifles at civilians. Things are so ugly over there, I’m surprised the civilians weren’t already armed.
Israeli politics, like ours, has turned very poisonous and toxic to the point where those in power forgot the first role of government..the protection of its people.

The same has been happening here..obviously, with our wide open southern border..estimated 10 MILLION illegal aliens..some of which, NO DOUBT are terrorist sleeper cells...

Our case is slightly different. Half our politicians, the ones who currently hold power, actually hate their own country and are actively trying to destroy it.

It only ends one way...and we all KNOW what that is. It's only the question of when it kicks off.
 
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