I was gonna put this on the end of the other thread, but it was closed.
BTW, no offense, but what is the point of a firearms forum if you cannot discuss current firearms events, issues, problems...? I’m new, sure, but what is so offensive about a discussion of those issues? And what is a bigger issue to gun owners than no bullets?
But back to it....
The ammo shortage is due to Re-sellers, by a wide margin..black marketeers, in some cases, if you will.
Why not increased gun ownership, scared of riots, elections, and Democrat bans driving it?
Well, yes, it’s a contributing factor undoubtedly. But that is not driving this! I’ve been looking for months for reasonably priced stuff, for hunting seasons, and was way low in Spring. I don’t reload, because I really don’t shoot that much, outside of hunting practice and pistol defense. So... in all these long weeks and months I’ve talked to many sellers, distributors, wholesale sellers, looked at local FFL’s, and here’s what the largest sellers have all said:
A small handful of buyers are buying 90% of it religiously! One major distributor told me they sold 2 truckloads of 556 and 9mm in 10 min., to Eight.... count ‘em 8.... buyers. One guy spent over 10k on 556. He said new gun owners usually leave with 2 boxes, or a half case at most. He said, “No, it’s not hunters and average owners doing all this,” when I asked that question later. He said they get 1000 calls a day, because the average guy can’t get anything locally. I know first hand, of an instance of a small shop selling all their stock on Gunbroker, with none for their retail store, out of stock they say, all summer. 2 large distributors told me, “there is no shortage” it comes every week 3X, just like it always did, but I never see it for sale.? Why? Someone close... or employees, is buying it before it’s even listed.
So I called Federal. Federal says they are working 24/7 and shipping regularly. Now, Remington is down, I acknowledge that. But Federal was the biggest before, anyway.
Something else I’ve noticed...the timeline of all this, is the most compelling supporting argument for what I think happened. First, it was auto pistol calibers that stock ran out first, and as soon as Lucky and Dirt started cashing in with insane prices, it went fast and the dog whistle was blown.... but at that point, hunting rifle calibers were still very easy and even on sale, as was .22lr and shotgun shells. But after auto pistols went, then revolver calibers sold out quick, then it moved quickly to .22’s. The message was out about Gunbroker prices on 9mm and the gougers, in less than 1 week, as far as I could tell bought all the .22 bulk Everything.... in about a week or so, that you could get shipped online at regular prices.
2-3 more weeks passed and after .22lr was gone they moved to hp rifle. Now it’s largely gone. Then shotshells..... gone. And the shotshells, bird shot... makes NO sense! I have Never in my lifetime seen birdshot sold completely out of stores like it is now, and of course it’s gone up 20% when you find it. That’s unusual, as a guy who buys more shotshells than anything else yearly.
It’s mostly on Gunbroker. All forms of it. There are so many listings of ammo on GB that sellers have started putting little signed banners in their ads, to stand out from the crowd. Then there is flea markets.
So my question is this.... “What, makes anyone think this will get better anytime soon, when this isn’t really a supply vs. demand problem, as much as it is a market manipulation” ?
Market manipulations can last just as long as the gougers keep the inventory in retail at zero, at regular prices, in stores! It’s going to be big in the news when deer season comes around and lots of hunters can’t get ammo. Hunters usually buy right before the season, or a lot of them do, with Walmart selling pallets in the week leading up to. Not this year, and a good thing a box of rifle lasts years.
I really think this needs to be addressed in some way, by consumer protections, and ATF, because I see no reason that gangs wouldn’t also be involved if they can make money! And it certainly makes money.... 100-300% profit is a return on investment that stocks can’t get! If stockbrokers bought all the oil and raised it 200%, law steps in. Without states intervention in this manipulation, prices will be crazy for years, maybe. 22lr never returned to the 2cents/round it was before the last “short” on them! I hear people saying, demand is good for 2A in the long run...but it’s not! In countries like Australia where prices kept going up, people quit shooting, priced out. That only made it easier to erode the rights to own firearms.
At what point do we collectively start asking someone in power to aid in correcting this manipulated market by already existing laws about selling as a dealer without FFL, and market manipulation and fraudulent behaviors under consumer protection laws?
BTW, even Federal has taken notice. Their prices on all ammunition have jumped across the board, and I guess buying Remington has added to that.
BTW, no offense, but what is the point of a firearms forum if you cannot discuss current firearms events, issues, problems...? I’m new, sure, but what is so offensive about a discussion of those issues? And what is a bigger issue to gun owners than no bullets?
But back to it....
The ammo shortage is due to Re-sellers, by a wide margin..black marketeers, in some cases, if you will.
Why not increased gun ownership, scared of riots, elections, and Democrat bans driving it?
Well, yes, it’s a contributing factor undoubtedly. But that is not driving this! I’ve been looking for months for reasonably priced stuff, for hunting seasons, and was way low in Spring. I don’t reload, because I really don’t shoot that much, outside of hunting practice and pistol defense. So... in all these long weeks and months I’ve talked to many sellers, distributors, wholesale sellers, looked at local FFL’s, and here’s what the largest sellers have all said:
A small handful of buyers are buying 90% of it religiously! One major distributor told me they sold 2 truckloads of 556 and 9mm in 10 min., to Eight.... count ‘em 8.... buyers. One guy spent over 10k on 556. He said new gun owners usually leave with 2 boxes, or a half case at most. He said, “No, it’s not hunters and average owners doing all this,” when I asked that question later. He said they get 1000 calls a day, because the average guy can’t get anything locally. I know first hand, of an instance of a small shop selling all their stock on Gunbroker, with none for their retail store, out of stock they say, all summer. 2 large distributors told me, “there is no shortage” it comes every week 3X, just like it always did, but I never see it for sale.? Why? Someone close... or employees, is buying it before it’s even listed.
So I called Federal. Federal says they are working 24/7 and shipping regularly. Now, Remington is down, I acknowledge that. But Federal was the biggest before, anyway.
Something else I’ve noticed...the timeline of all this, is the most compelling supporting argument for what I think happened. First, it was auto pistol calibers that stock ran out first, and as soon as Lucky and Dirt started cashing in with insane prices, it went fast and the dog whistle was blown.... but at that point, hunting rifle calibers were still very easy and even on sale, as was .22lr and shotgun shells. But after auto pistols went, then revolver calibers sold out quick, then it moved quickly to .22’s. The message was out about Gunbroker prices on 9mm and the gougers, in less than 1 week, as far as I could tell bought all the .22 bulk Everything.... in about a week or so, that you could get shipped online at regular prices.
2-3 more weeks passed and after .22lr was gone they moved to hp rifle. Now it’s largely gone. Then shotshells..... gone. And the shotshells, bird shot... makes NO sense! I have Never in my lifetime seen birdshot sold completely out of stores like it is now, and of course it’s gone up 20% when you find it. That’s unusual, as a guy who buys more shotshells than anything else yearly.
It’s mostly on Gunbroker. All forms of it. There are so many listings of ammo on GB that sellers have started putting little signed banners in their ads, to stand out from the crowd. Then there is flea markets.
So my question is this.... “What, makes anyone think this will get better anytime soon, when this isn’t really a supply vs. demand problem, as much as it is a market manipulation” ?
Market manipulations can last just as long as the gougers keep the inventory in retail at zero, at regular prices, in stores! It’s going to be big in the news when deer season comes around and lots of hunters can’t get ammo. Hunters usually buy right before the season, or a lot of them do, with Walmart selling pallets in the week leading up to. Not this year, and a good thing a box of rifle lasts years.
I really think this needs to be addressed in some way, by consumer protections, and ATF, because I see no reason that gangs wouldn’t also be involved if they can make money! And it certainly makes money.... 100-300% profit is a return on investment that stocks can’t get! If stockbrokers bought all the oil and raised it 200%, law steps in. Without states intervention in this manipulation, prices will be crazy for years, maybe. 22lr never returned to the 2cents/round it was before the last “short” on them! I hear people saying, demand is good for 2A in the long run...but it’s not! In countries like Australia where prices kept going up, people quit shooting, priced out. That only made it easier to erode the rights to own firearms.
At what point do we collectively start asking someone in power to aid in correcting this manipulated market by already existing laws about selling as a dealer without FFL, and market manipulation and fraudulent behaviors under consumer protection laws?
BTW, even Federal has taken notice. Their prices on all ammunition have jumped across the board, and I guess buying Remington has added to that.