RPRNY
Member
The Belgian Centaure 1860s have fooled more than one self proclaimed expert. Only the discrete Belgian proof Mark (Liege) is a dead give away.
Italian Colt's replicas with "Close but No Ceegar" Colt marks
- Thread starter elhombreconnonombre
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elhombreconnonombre
Member
It is interesting to note that according to the USPTO, there is no trademark registered for any of the barrel markings or "Colt's Patent" mark used by Colt during the era of the percussion revolver nor during the time that modern foreign repro manufacturers were threatened by Colt. Per the govt records,it appears that Colt didnt even reregister their old trademarks during the1970s - 80s for their own C and F series replicas. Per my knowledge of trademarks from a 40 year career in engineering/maufacturing if you dont continue to use a trademark as it was PRODUCED ORIGINALLY IN COMMERCE AND CONTINUE TO PAY for its ongoing registration with the USPTO it is listed as "dead" and is up for grabs.
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elhombreconnonombre
Member
Truly said, but I believe that Colt simply sent "cease and desist" letters to Uberti, ASM, et al during this period, "threatening legal action", but without any court case being the result. Per letter of the law, Colt Patent Firearms of the 1860s lost their rights TECHNICALLY to their trademarks and patents when they allowed Southern revolver manufactureres to make Colt's clones without VIGOROUSLY defending their intellectual property rights at the time. I have never heard of Colt suing G&G or Dance or any of the other Confederate makers, but then again, the war, etc.
I dont recall the modern Colt co. threatening to sue the counterfeight box and paperwork sellers or the vintage fake Colt revolver sellers.Again, per the law, if an intellectual proprerty rights owner does not VIGOROUSLY DEFEND those rights, it runs the risk of losing yhose rights.
I know this from personally experience. I lost a registered trademark, that was once valued at over a million bucks, because there was a time lapse in product production and sales while I was recuperating from a stroke a few years back. At the time I didnt have the cash to VIGOROUSLY defend my rights from interlopers. I sent numerous C&D letters "threatening legal action" which were ignored and protested to the USPTO. to no avail.
I dont recall the modern Colt co. threatening to sue the counterfeight box and paperwork sellers or the vintage fake Colt revolver sellers.Again, per the law, if an intellectual proprerty rights owner does not VIGOROUSLY DEFEND those rights, it runs the risk of losing yhose rights.
I know this from personally experience. I lost a registered trademark, that was once valued at over a million bucks, because there was a time lapse in product production and sales while I was recuperating from a stroke a few years back. At the time I didnt have the cash to VIGOROUSLY defend my rights from interlopers. I sent numerous C&D letters "threatening legal action" which were ignored and protested to the USPTO. to no avail.
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elhombreconnonombre
Member
That what old Sam did back in the day, with the exception of the CSA revolver makers per my revised post above.
Crawdad1
Member
Elhombre you're throwing a wrench into the works there. The bottom line then and the ONLY distinguishing feature that separates the 'C' Series and 'F' Series and the 3rd Generation or Signature Series Colts from all the others then would have to be the European proof mark stamped on the revolver????????
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krupparms
Member
I went to a civil war reenactment this father's day. After looking at some of the guns & shooting their cannon, I got that bug again. I used to live outside Chattanooga Tenn. They have a number of battlefields close by & reenactments are popular. The imports from Italy are very popular. I have a 1860 Colt Army that I plan to use . I got it in a trade some years back & will now take a closer look at its markings! I believe its a A.S.M. revolver. Thanks for the info!
RPRNY
Member
Certainly in the 1870 - 1905 era, Colt's aggressive patent rights defense is well documented.
Willie Sutton
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^^ I sent back a 1860 Army and one other, can't remember what but I do remember it was in .44 so it must have been a Dragoon.
They were Cimmaron and bought from Texas Jacks. They were "supposed" to have been looked over and inspected before shipment and I xspecifically asked about the markings and was told that there were none. They came with the mis-spelled markings. The two that I remember are "Saml Cotl" and "New Jork" on the barrel. Willie was not too happy about this.
My return for credit experience with Texas Jacks was so poor (noting also that the original order was mis-shipped and came both with wrong accessories included and late), that I swore I would never do business with them again. It took over a month to get a refund, and to say it was not given cheerfully is an understatement. To this day I will not patronize them, and the Cimmaron maarked Ubertis that I have are all from secondary purchases on the used market.
Willie
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They were Cimmaron and bought from Texas Jacks. They were "supposed" to have been looked over and inspected before shipment and I xspecifically asked about the markings and was told that there were none. They came with the mis-spelled markings. The two that I remember are "Saml Cotl" and "New Jork" on the barrel. Willie was not too happy about this.
My return for credit experience with Texas Jacks was so poor (noting also that the original order was mis-shipped and came both with wrong accessories included and late), that I swore I would never do business with them again. It took over a month to get a refund, and to say it was not given cheerfully is an understatement. To this day I will not patronize them, and the Cimmaron maarked Ubertis that I have are all from secondary purchases on the used market.
Willie
.
Crawdad1
Member
No one wants to shoot the Second generation or Third generation Colts. look at Gunbroker or Auction Arms web-sites when they list a Colt. Its always in the description, "Never been turned, never been cocked, and sometimes never been out of the box." 
elhombreconnonombre
Member
I am looking for my own "holy grail" of ASM repros: a Colt marked 4 screw 3rd model Dragoon with detachable shoulder stock with iron rather than brass fittings on the stock.
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Jim Watson
Member
I think Colt sued one replicator on the grounds of "trade dress."
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. In this case an intentional copy.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. In this case an intentional copy.
Crawdad1
Member
I am surprized by that Will, I've always heard good things about that outfit. I have never dealt with them as I have always dealt with Taylor's & Company and have been a very satisfied customer. I've just bought my 6th revolver from them and it, like the previous 5 revolvers, is a beauty!!
Crawdad1
Member
That's great!!!! The vast majority of people that own these Colts don't realize how great of shooters they are by keeping them locked away. :banghead:
elhombreconnonombre
Member
Unfortunately, I missed out on grabbing any 2nd or 3rd gen Colts when the more common models came on the scene at $300-$400 new back in the day. I was too busy playing with hot rods and jet boats. The hot rods and boats are long gone. Now while I can still find new non-fired 2nd gens locally for $500-$600, depending on the model, I prefer some of the odd ASMs with Colt markings.
elhombreconnonombre
Member
Unfortunately, I missed out on grabbing any 2nd or 3rd gen Colts when the more common models came on the scene at $300-$400 new back in the day. I was too busy playing with hot rods and jet boats. The hot rods and boats are long gone. Now while I can still find new non-fired 2nd gens locally for $500-$600, depending on the model, I prefer some of the odd ASMs with Colt markings.
Crawdad1
Member
ASM built and offered a beautiful revolver. Well worth collecting.
Willie Sutton
Member
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- Apr 28, 2013
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^^ This. There are some gems amongst the dreck.
Interesting that they made them with different finish qualities though. I have a pair imported by Richardson and so marked, with additional Colt markings on top of the barrel, that look like Colt Python quality bluing. I saw another Colt Marked one on Gunbroker and bought it, thinking it would be the same, and although it has the exact same roll markings on the barrel, and is also marked "Richardson", the blue job is indifferent with a very much lower level of polish. Still nice, and equal to current Uberti products, but not even close to the gorgeous other pair. That pait is as nice or nicer than any of the Colt Second Gen examples I have seen.
"I am surprized by that Will, I've always heard good things about that outfit."
Yeah... I was pretty unhappy. it takes a lot to rile me, but the combination of:
1: Promising to look at markings and to inform me if there were any odd marks present before shipping,
and
2: Promising shipping via 2 day UPS so I could have them for a weekend event that I had planned to enjoy with some guests.
With the result that:
1: They finally got around to shipping them the Monday *after* they had promised delivery the preceeding Friday,
2: Shipment of one wrong model (Walker v/s Dragoon)
3: Both the 1860 and Walker has the "Cotl" and "New Jork" markings on them and the boxes had never been opened for inspection as promised.
4: Refusal to send a call tag for return of the mis-shipped Walker and the stupidly marked 1860.
5: Once I shipped them back at my own expense, to then jerk me around for weeks trying to get a refund, while being extremely rude on the phone to me.
All let to a pretty peeved Willie who will never patronize Texas Jacks again. Taylors and S&S are for me.
Willie
.
Interesting that they made them with different finish qualities though. I have a pair imported by Richardson and so marked, with additional Colt markings on top of the barrel, that look like Colt Python quality bluing. I saw another Colt Marked one on Gunbroker and bought it, thinking it would be the same, and although it has the exact same roll markings on the barrel, and is also marked "Richardson", the blue job is indifferent with a very much lower level of polish. Still nice, and equal to current Uberti products, but not even close to the gorgeous other pair. That pait is as nice or nicer than any of the Colt Second Gen examples I have seen.
"I am surprized by that Will, I've always heard good things about that outfit."
Yeah... I was pretty unhappy. it takes a lot to rile me, but the combination of:
1: Promising to look at markings and to inform me if there were any odd marks present before shipping,
and
2: Promising shipping via 2 day UPS so I could have them for a weekend event that I had planned to enjoy with some guests.
With the result that:
1: They finally got around to shipping them the Monday *after* they had promised delivery the preceeding Friday,
2: Shipment of one wrong model (Walker v/s Dragoon)
3: Both the 1860 and Walker has the "Cotl" and "New Jork" markings on them and the boxes had never been opened for inspection as promised.
4: Refusal to send a call tag for return of the mis-shipped Walker and the stupidly marked 1860.
5: Once I shipped them back at my own expense, to then jerk me around for weeks trying to get a refund, while being extremely rude on the phone to me.
All let to a pretty peeved Willie who will never patronize Texas Jacks again. Taylors and S&S are for me.
Willie
.
cyberdan
Member
I have an Uberti 1851 with the COTL mark. I thought it was a deliberate misspelling to avoid patent infringement.
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