ITFS 1 class

[brownie0486]

I made it home from Knoxville on the motorcycle in two days covering 1924 miles and am now back in the heat of Arizona [ 100 predicted today ].

I appreciate all the thoughts and commentary here from people who attended the various courses offered over 8 days in Knoxville. It's always nice to know that people find the training provided by the Integrated Threat Focused Training Systems courses has merit and value.

I'd like to recognize HSO and Jim Music for their invaluable input and effort putting this event together. Every day ran very smoothly due to boths efforts in securing everything necessary the students would need and some that just made the event more pleasant like the tent for shade, the water cooler and cups and plentiful targets and backing along with strapping.

The rifle course went off very well, HSO was hitting clays out of the air with both the bbgun rifle and the airsoft pistols in no time. Jim's coming out to Arizona a few months back to bring me up to speed on pistol shooting ariels was very beneficial. His skills with a pistol and rifle are superb.

One might ask how ariel shooting with rifles or pistols could translate to SD with the same pistol, and thats a valid question. The answer is quite simple really. If you can hit moving objects with the rifle or pistol out of the air, you have the confidence and ability to hit things that are humanoid size moving about dynamically in SD situatuions without even thinking about it. It's a real confidence builder to the shooter to know he can hit on the move at movers, and confidence in ones skills in ultimately very important when the time may come to use the skills [ not to mention the very wide grins from the students when they were hitting quarters and dimes out of the air with the red ryder bbguns, right Mike ].

Most importantly, thanks to the all the students who attended the courses of fire on the weekends and those who during the week gave up work time to get themselves out to the training. A lot of effort was made by everyone, and I look forward to returning to Knoxville in the fall again.

Brownie

 

[hso]

Robin,

Thanks for coming out. I think everyone benefited a lot from the training (how'r those AirSoft welts doing? Mine still sting a little.)

Gwen and I pretty much broke everything down on Sunday morning, but not before she tried an idea on how to index her AK better. Made a huge improvement and she was snapping shots into place in no time. Michaela was popping BBs from the RR into the COM in tight little groups behind us while Mom was poking 7.62 holes

See you in October!

 

[brownie0486]

All but one of the welts has disappeared The one that got me under the shirt on bare skin is still visible however.

Glad to be there and training Mike, looking forward to Oct as well. I made contact with Big Eds via email and he is going to set up a class just for his employees and get back to me with dates, probably be in Knoxville again before Oct for his people to be trained without having them interspersed into the class in Oct.

Good to hear Gwen and the little one benefited from the rifle QK training. Once Gwen had found her reference to the end of the barrel in her peripheral vision, she was bangin that threat hard with COM hits.

Your M1a was perfect for these skills as you were on with the first shot and every shot thereafter with no problem at all.

Stay sharp out there.

Brownie

 

[7677]

Opsec

 

[taliv]

glad to hear the rifle class went well. i'll have to attend the next one. you guys have to work on your timing! last class was at the same time as knob creek, and this one was the same weekend as the whittington get together.

 

[JMusic]

Hey, you ever get that swift built?

Jim

 

[Owen]

7677,

the technique Brownie was calling the Hammer had no wrist articulation.

Basically there is an EUED, then the hip is bumped forward. The bump changed the angle of the fore-arm to the ground enough to get a head shot.

 

[brownie0486]

Owen,

The hammer as I teach the skill is a static maneuver thats dependant on speed.

Brownie

 

[Owen]

Brownie,

I understand that it is all about speed. It's also completely different than what 7677 is talking about, which sounds like hosing the BG until the shooter is close enough for a reliable head shot.

IOW, 7677 is wrong about the hip part of the motion, because we aren't talking about his tech, but yours.

 

[JMusic]

Owen, you will find that the vocabulary is confusing sometimes when describing a technique. Actually both are right in their description of "their technique". You will also find as instructors progress in their teaching they tend to change their techniques to overcome an issue that they have discovered. I would rather have that than someone who is adverse to change.


Jim

 

[Owen]

Jim,

In a thread discussing the techniques Brownie teaches I opted to call one the bump rather than the hammer, because Brownie seemed to use the terms interchangably, and becuase the majority of trained shooters know Cooper's Hammer, which is a sighted shot followed by an automatic, unaimed second shot.

7677 then interjected that the Hammer he teaches has been around since the 1930's, and is a third completely different technique, that fills a third tactical niche, and said the hip bump was useless, because you can't do it while moving.

I happen to know another technque called the Hammer, used primarily to drive nails.

Then there is College pastime, getting Hammered.

Oh yeah, and that funny bouncy legs thing that MC Hammer did with the baggy pants.

Don't you think in a thread discussing Brownie's class, posters should stick to discussing the technique Brownie calls the hammer, rather than arguing my hammer is older and better than yours?

 

[7677]

Opsec

 

[hso]

7677's "Hammer", Cooper's "Hammer", Brownie's "Hammer" sound like 3 (at least) very different techniques with very different applications sharing the same name.

With more and more people training and the possible terms for techniques being limited (I can't stand alphabet soup "names" for things) it's almost a given that we'll have to define terms in most discussions so we all know which technique we're discussing.

7677's Hammer sounds worthy of it's own thread.

 

[7677]

Opsec

 

[brownie0486]

The definative clarification on where and how I learned whats being discussed here [ the hammer ] without getting into any long narratives can be seen in this link to a thread I started on my site on 3/2/2006:

http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111&highlight=hammer

In the interest of fair play and to seperate others unique interest in various versions of the skills set past or present, I'll rename the variation of the hammer drill I teach to "The Bump".

Brownie

 

[hso]

Ok, let's get back on topic and not drift into this side bar. S&T isn't the place for questions that should be addressed by private parties.

 

[BullfrogKen]

The bickering ends now . . .

Work this out between yourselves someplace besides here. The next time I see a thread hijiacked by someone to bicker over who owns what, and who teaches what correctly, that behavior will have consequences.

 

[brownie0486]

Here's some pics of the FoF training day.

Thanks to JMusic for providing the camera shots.

The first photo shows me antagonizing the student to "go for it, and draw on me",

the second is my jamming the students gun out of the way while I give him two to the chest as he had initiatated first and I move into him,

the third shows myself starting to move to the students strong side [ my weak side ] as he is bringing the gun to bear on me after initiating the action [ I've just cleared the holster ];

the fourth shows me drawing from the students initiation where he had me beat but tried to extend the gun up on me and I've slapped it out if his hand. It shows me still drawing from his initiating the action and his gun laying about one foot from my left foot on the ground]. Jim snapped the shot as he raised his hand and I've not looked up yet from where the gun had been positioned as I slapped it out of his hand;

and the last picture shows me also moving to the students strong side and his rounds going behind me as I shoot him from an FAS 3/4 hip position which is the culmination of the action from the third photo.

Notice in the third and last shot my left arm is tucked into my chest without consciously thinking about it while moving.

I got nailed several times in the action, some tactics worked better than others in avoiding taking rds. All the students were allowed to initiate the action first [ starting to draw on me ] and I had to react to their actions. Every drill started at the distance shown in the first photo. Notice how the distance immediately increases from there in the third and last photos with the exception of the times I moved into them to foul their initiatiating their drawstroke which proved very effective at the distances we started these at.

Brownie

 

[brownie0486]

Here's some shots of my demonstrating the lateral running and hitting the threat. The distance to the threat is 12-14 feet in these shots.

Notice the threat has multiple rds in him while flat out running lateraly both to my strong and weak side at that distance. The first picture shows classic Quick Kill being used with the gun at nose level and threat focused. The last shot I've finished firing and starting to put the brakes on to stop my momentum.

The second shot shows I'm starting to redirect my movement back to the strong side after running by the threat to my off side.

Yes, I'm wearing the Springfield Armory XD T shirt that day and using my first generation G17

Brownie

 

[brownie0486]

I should mention that with Fof role playing, I had to keep the students safety in mind at all times and change the tactics used to win when moving into them to foul their drawstrokes.

In the real world of surviving this type of encounter at the distances we initiated the action, they'd be finding me turning them and getting broken necks and an eye likely gouged out from behind at the same time PDQ.

Redirecting their thought process [ getting them to start reacting to me ] through pain compliance works well in the real world, but you need good H2H skills as Tangle mentioned in his review when we trained in them one day PDQ.

Brownie

 

[7677]

Brownie,
With the downward spiral of this thread due to written text being such a great medium to convey messages, I didn't get a chance to congratulate you on a job well done in Knoxville. It looks to me that you imparted a boatload of skills to the students that one day may save their lives.

I also thank you for changing the name of the version of the hammer to the bump to cut down confusion between the two techniques.

 

[brownie0486]

Thanks for your thoughts and comments sir, they are certainly appreciated.

I think it is not only important but imperative to keep various skills/techniques seperate as you mention, it cuts down on any potential confusion others may have in the future where terms are used by various instructors.

Stay safe out there

Brownie