"It's impossible to get a quality 1911 made in the USA for under $2,000"

[BullfrogKen]

Glocks are incredibly simple to maintain and fix. That's a huge advantage. Officers who have to turn in a firearm for maintenance or armorer level repair need one for their shift to go into service for calls.

The people who manage budgets like handguns that come back from the Department Armorer for their periodic maintenance, or the factory repair rep for repairs, quickly. It reduces the number of spares necessary, and rush work - which is more expensive.


Handguns for Policing Agencies are viewed a lot like a fleet of cars. And the same sorts of concerns for maintenance are made in the decision.

 

[Skylerbone]

Just a few points, Browning doesn't "make" anything, they commission products to label.

If you want a "Sig"/"HK" quality all steel pistol in the same price point made in the USA buy 2 used 3rd gen. Smiths.

While some have shown their patriotic leanings in what they have posted others have shown their loathing for anything associated with the US.

I'd love to know what some posters here own or have owned in their "years of experience", 1 Glock?

I concur with the OP, no 1911s can be had from our shores for less than $2000 that are reliable and usable so do please quit looking at and buying them as fast as they can be produced. And just give up harping on them already. Go play with those Glocks.

 

[amd6547]

My years of experience count about 45 yrs since the first single shot 22...
I own two 1911's...a US made Para Gi Expert, which I dont quite trust because of three jams in the first 150rds, and a Norinco 1911A1 I do trust, as the Commies seemed to be able to build a tough and reliable 45 before clinton banned them.
But I use a 45acp Glock 30, mainly because I was considering getting a compact 1911 till I found they have a reputation for being finicky...deciding that I like the 45acp cartridge even more than the 1911 led me to the Glock, and I couldnt be happier. Buying it as a compact CCW, I found it was perfect also as a HD and woods pistol, was extremely accurate, and holds 10 rounds...bought it with night sights for the price I would have paid for an entry level compact 1911.

 

[2wheels]

My years of experience count about 45 yrs since the first single shot 22...
I own two 1911's...a US made Para Gi Expert, which I dont quite trust because of three jams in the first 150rds, and a Norinco 1911A1 I do trust, as the Commies seemed to be able to build a tough and reliable 45 before clinton banned them.
But I use a 45acp Glock 30, mainly because I was considering getting a compact 1911 till I found they have a reputation for being finicky...deciding that I like the 45acp cartridge even more than the 1911 led me to the Glock, and I couldnt be happier. Buying it as a compact CCW, I found it was perfect also as a HD and woods pistol, was extremely accurate, and holds 10 rounds...bought it with night sights for the price I would have paid for an entry level compact 1911.

Has your Para jammed since those first 150 rounds?

It probably needed to be broken in. I had 2 jams with my New Agent in the first 100 rounds, I've put over 1000 through it so far with zero failures since then.

No reason to not trust it if it gives you a hiccup or three in the first couple hundred rounds.

 

[SwampWolf]

Unless you cut corners somewhere a 1911 is going to be $1500+. Want one with custom sights and a Glock like finish that wears good and deosn't rust? $2000.

I beg to differ. There's plenty of very nice 1911s out there that sell for well under $1,500.00, pistols with durable finishes (including s/s), good triggers, nice sights, reliable and well-finished.-too many to list. If you want a semi-custom or custom 1911, there's plenty to choose from and for some people, apparently worth the money. But to say that you can't buy a 1911 for under $1,500.00 that will do anything most people expect one to do is just plain hogwash.
Get one for under a grand and you'll have $500.00 or more left over from the projected $1,500.00 figure to buy ammunition with.

 

[Nushif]

Could a hightech single action 1911 style gun with a modern linkless barrel be made, and be redesighned to incorporate modern machining techniques, no fitting. Sure. But noone has made such a thing....... yet.

And you know why? Because nobody would buy it! Personally, I'd be all over a dedicated single action, double stack compact 1911 style weapon with aftermarket support. (In 9mm, because I reload that and it's nicely available)
But here's the deal, for every one of me, there is twenty guys who won't touch anything that hasn't been around since at least 30 years or looks even remotely like their grand dad may or may not have blanched at it.
There is so much mystique in the US gun "scene" that it's kinda tough selling anything "new" or "progressive" or "experimental." It's like the 1911 has its own cult, and the blueprints are most definitely not the guidelines to a good pistol. They're gospel.

 

[amd6547]

Para claims a 500rd break in process for their 1911...that really is unacceptable to me. And, they give you two crappy magazines, which I blame for the three jams I had in 150rds. That is also unacceptable.
The Glock works perfectly, and comes with good magazines...magazines which are also cheap to purchase.
I am a fan of all things Browning...I have ccw'd the Hipower for decades, having owned several.
But, the 1911 situation in 2011 is sad. It could be that Ruger will change that situation

 

[Effigy]

500 round break in. That's a good one. LOL

 

[2wheels]

Para claims a 500rd break in process for their 1911...that really is unacceptable to me. And, they give you two crappy magazines, which I blame for the three jams I had in 150rds. That is also unacceptable.
The Glock works perfectly, and comes with good magazines...magazines which are also cheap to purchase.
I am a fan of all things Browning...I have ccw'd the Hipower for decades, having owned several.
But, the 1911 situation in 2011 is sad. It could be that Ruger will change that situation

You didn't answer the question, did the gun jam again after those 150 rounds?

Sometimes, with 1911s they need a little breaking in. That's just the way it is. And sometimes, manufacturers give us crap mags. It happens.

I agree that if you just want a gun that goes 100% out of the box no questions asked, the Glock is probably the better choice.

 

[EddieNFL]

You know you are talking about the most sold gun in the world when you say GLOCK!

I don't have the numbers, but I thought it was the AK47.

 

[amd6547]

Pathetic rationalizations....crappy mags in a 450 dollar 1911...oh sure, its a 1911, what do you expect, good mags? After all, it is rocket science to make a decent mag for a design that is 100+ years old.
I did put 70 more rounds without a jam...but I also put 150 rounds through the NIB Norinco I managed to aquire using the GI spec mag supplied with it...no jams.
Now, with the Para, all I have to watch out for is plunger tube coming loose, ejector breaking off, and bad CS if anything does happen.

 

[mp510]

How come nobody has mentioned Smith & Wesson's SW1911. I know it is impure with the external extractor, but most of the SW1911 models are under $1000 new and they are solid, very reliable guns with forged frames and decent capability.

 

[rellascout]

If you want a "Sig"/"HK" quality all steel pistol in the same price point made in the USA buy 2 used 3rd gen. Smiths.

Aren't Sigs and HK both now made in the USA?

 

[Manco]

We hear this argument again and again, how single action firearms with safeties "require so much more training" than guns without them I think it's bogus. If a person is following the 3 rules of gun safety, they shouldn't be any more likely to have a negligent discharge with a 1911 than with a Glock.

For the record, I would agree, although for the sake of argument I was sort of using the perspective of many police departments in order to lead up to the point about marketing and how bogus that can be. Equally bogus, however, is the notion of overcoming fundamental deficiencies in training with equipment, but since they're not going to address that anyway, I suppose that "safer" equipment (is it really? ) is better than nothing.

 

[Leaky Waders]

Right now in 1911 I have 4 colts - they were all purchased new. They were all shot out of the box with no malfunction and received their first cleaning after their first firing. The most expensive was the most recent purchase, a Special Combat Gov't at ca. 1600 out the door(may have been 1695, but I'm not home to look in my safe at the receipt).

The thread with pics didn't receive much attention but is linked here.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=586507&highlight=special+combat+government

My other colts include the ww1 model, an xse, and a stainless model. I don't recall the prices but I know the stainless was like 700 new.

So, to me, I'd rather pay 50 dollars more for a base model factory colt 1911, than save 50 dollars for another manufacturers offering.

Colt has many things going for it:

1) name recognition for easier resale.
2) factory warranty that is really honored without a lot of hassle (read some of the lifetime warranty struggles concerning taurus for example)
3) after market parts support
4) it is often the paragon for comparison "My gun is just as good as a colt because..."
5) At present, most forged parts offered in product by manufacturer.
6) A custom shop.

I have also owned Springfied Armory - they shot well and performed without malfunction, but I disliked their key like extra safety feature ninja'd into the housing. It just kind of irked me...so I won't buy anymore of them. Kind of what ruger does to their 6 guns. Smith and Wesson takes all this heat about their internal locks and other manufacturers stealth some in and no one is really up in arms about it...but that's a topic of another thread.

 

[StrikeFire83]

^ Are your Colts reliable with JHP ammo?

 

[Dunedain]

It's nice to see a Ruger 1911 .45, hopefully the quality will prove good when many shooters start buying them and putting lots of rounds through them. And the subject of the thread is 1911's made in the U.S. for under $2,000. So why do Springfields keep getting mentioned? Their slides and/or frames come from some place like brazil, I think, so they don't even qualify...

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Para USA GI Expert works for me. $450 very lightly used. Hasn't had an issue with any factory ammo I've fed it, including Remington JHP. Nearing 500 rounds through it at which point it will get its second cleaning.

Only problem has been my first batch of reloads (new reloader). I set the OAL at the min for the load (wondered why they looked so short) and three out of 100 didn't feed properly. Lesson learned, next batch will have a longer OAL...

 

[Leaky Waders]

"Are your Colts reliable with JHP ammo?"

To tell the truth, I've run very little jhp through my 45 acps...but the box or two I did was no different than the ball ammo. So like 40 rounds total spread amongst two pistols (the xse and the stainless one) with no malfunction.

Really I see no need for jhp in 45 acp...you should've kept your Kimber and practiced and carried ball ammo imho.

Just brainstorming here...but your bullet design was probably not the fault of the feeding problems in your Kimber. If you shot 230 ball ammo well, then you may want your jhp to try and mimic that loading. If you're using some super duper defense round, with a lighter bullet and superfast load, then you may need to get a pistol smith to change springs or something to work on the timing of the pistol.

 

[HankB]

I have a Les Bear I paid much less than $1000 for . . . of course, I bought it gently used, but MSRP is still under $2k for many models. Very fine pistol.

Colt has many things going for it: . . .
. . . .2) factory warranty that is really honored without a lot of hassle

This is a joke, right? I had a Colt Government Model Jammamatic that would seldom get through a mag of hardball without a stoppage or three. My experience is that Colt's warranty "service" consists of taking in the pistol, sitting on it for a month or two, and returning it to the customer in the same condition in which it was received. Repeat until customer gives up in disgust. Everyone may make an occasional lemon, but good companies stand behind their product.

Colt's didn't.

I vowed never to purchase another Colt . . . and I haven't. And I'm better off.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Really I see no need for jhp in 45 acp...you should've kept your Kimber and practiced and carried ball ammo imho.

I appreciate your input, but carrying FMJ ball ammo for SD goes against everything I've been taught, both by my Dad, a 20 year Army veteran and by my CCW instructors. One of Daniel Ortega's stooges somewhere in Nicaragua didn't come home one night due to of several 9mm FMJs from my Dad's Browning Hi-Power, so I know FMJ can wound/kill, but if JHPs are better, and most modern guns can reliabily fire them, I will carry them.

 

[69Rebel]

I have had this 1911 for about 10 years now, and the only trouble I have ever had was when the (probably unnecessary) shock buffer fell apart and would delay the closing of the slide. Even when the slide was sticking, it would still feed and function. New buffer and back to perfect.
It feeds any and all hollow points, Gold Dots, Hydra-Shoks, Flying Ashtrays, Aguilas....anything. Out of any mag I've tried.
I got it on a trade, about $500 worth, and it has been tuned. Hundreds and hundreds of rounds, no problems other than the stupid shock buffer which I should probably remove anyway.

 

[SuperNaut]

I have 3 1911's (Springer, STI, Para), all were well under a grand, and all are as reliable as the sunrise.

 

[foghornl]

I haven't even seen Ruger's 1911 in person, so I don't know aobut it.

That being said, I have 2 Springfield Armory 1911's..

a 4" barrel Champion model, and the 5" "GI-45". Both go BANG! on request, every time, and put the lead where you aim.

 

[Skylerbone]

I suspect this thread is going nowhere and only proving one thing: any mechanical device is subject to failure (unless it's a Glock which is perfect...and that's why owners love the massive amount of aftermarket support for it).

I've said before that my Ford Ranger ran without failure of any sort with nothing but standard oil/filter/coolant changes for 11 years till I traded for a family wagon. It was not perfect, did not drive like a BMW or corner like an Audi or accelerate like a Porsche. I accepted it's shortcomings in performance for it's reliability and price tag. Why is it thought that a fine pistol should be perfect, infallible and cost less than a set of snow tires?

FWIW the only pistol I've ever had problems with (occasional FTF/FTE) is a Beretta .22 and before the ammo suggestions come pouring in remember that is what started this whole thread, can't shoot X load from a 1911 reliably. My old Ruger Single-Six has never had a failure of any sort, including going bang.