orionengnr
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Communist!!!
Jerk at a gunshow
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Communist!!!
Arkansas Paul
Member
While I don't agree with how the man apparantly handled the situation, it was not unAmerican. If anything it was very American. He has the freedom to be an a-hole if he wants to be. He has just as much right to do that as you do to not buy his stuff. It aint cool the way he treated you, but if he wants to be a jerk, he can. By the way, in your shoes, I may have refused to do business with him as well. I'm not condoning his behavior, just saying he has a right to it.
Erik M
Member
thats a signature line if I ever read one."Jerk at Gunshow" is like saying "Idiot in Congress"
wojownik
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the two things that get me are (1) he called security over and (2) he offers beef jerky as an apology. The first is way over the top if someone is not being disruptive or clearly trying to do something wrong. The second is just insulting - trivializing the first. Crappy way to do business. Yeah, you probably could have used the issue to leverage a deal. On the other hand, I don't see anything wrong either with standing on principal an not doing business with someone that gives customers an experience like that...
Wildyams
Member
I personally don't have a problem with this, as long as they are professional about it and do things in a timely manner.
because what if there was someone there that shouldn't have been? the 30 seconds of inconvenience it caused you maybe in another situation it could have saved someones life.
I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago, i was making a right hand turn and swung out into the 2nd lane (this was at like 1:30am) and there happened to be a sheriff half a block away, he pulled me over, asked if I had been drinking, ran my license and I was out of there in honestly less than a minute. It didn't bother me at all because I knew he was just trying to keep everyone safe.
because what if there was someone there that shouldn't have been? the 30 seconds of inconvenience it caused you maybe in another situation it could have saved someones life.
I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago, i was making a right hand turn and swung out into the 2nd lane (this was at like 1:30am) and there happened to be a sheriff half a block away, he pulled me over, asked if I had been drinking, ran my license and I was out of there in honestly less than a minute. It didn't bother me at all because I knew he was just trying to keep everyone safe.
Jerk at the gun show?
That's pretty funny!
Sounded like you over reacted.
Your not in Italy anymore!
Sorry to hear you couldn't swallow your pride for a good deal, but at least you still have your pride.
Well, at least that's my first reaction, but yes, I agree with you for the most part, but it was business, bias or not, it's business. Just trust me, I've been on both ends and we are talking about guns, not used cars.
That's pretty funny!
Sounded like you over reacted.
Your not in Italy anymore!
Sorry to hear you couldn't swallow your pride for a good deal, but at least you still have your pride.
Well, at least that's my first reaction, but yes, I agree with you for the most part, but it was business, bias or not, it's business. Just trust me, I've been on both ends and we are talking about guns, not used cars.
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Arkansas Paul
Member
How is offering him free merchandise an insult?
What was he supposed to do? Say, "Oh I'm sorry sir. Here, pick out any gun you want and take it."
The guy made a mistake and realized it. He tried to make it right. I've said before and I'll repeat it. I don't think it was cool that he acted like a jerk, but he tried to make it right. You can't call someone a bad person when they try to fix a mistake. If he didn't try to fix it, then yeah, he's a jackass. But he did.
What was he supposed to do? Say, "Oh I'm sorry sir. Here, pick out any gun you want and take it."
The guy made a mistake and realized it. He tried to make it right. I've said before and I'll repeat it. I don't think it was cool that he acted like a jerk, but he tried to make it right. You can't call someone a bad person when they try to fix a mistake. If he didn't try to fix it, then yeah, he's a jackass. But he did.
KarenTOC
Member
I find it odd that the OP's accent wasn't a problem when he was willing to buy. It only became a problem once he wanted to trade.
Myles
Member
I can understand both sides of the issue, but the dealer was already being unprofessional, mumbling and muttering about smuggling guns to Canada. Just ask for ID, sir. Calling over security guards to embarrass a potential customer? Over reaction.
I may or may not have gone through with the deal, myself. Free jerky. But, the OP made his feelings known by voting with his wallet. Everyone knew where they stood.
I may or may not have gone through with the deal, myself. Free jerky. But, the OP made his feelings known by voting with his wallet. Everyone knew where they stood.
This is quite common in the gun world we are in. And most especially in gunshow dealers . There are yahoos out there and theres a lot of good people , too. Just be ready when the next one comes along. Just be assertive of your rights and do not be intimidated. These kinds of rush to prejudice by sellers are motivated by fear of dealing with potential criminals and lawless elements. I bet the seller learned a lot after the fact.
mdThanatos
Member
When he offered you beef jerky you should have offered him some focaccia bread and see what he thought of your accent then.
Occam's Razor
Member
My thought is that you handled that far more calmly and gentlemanly than I probably would have.
X-Rap
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Its funny I am Scandinavian and American Indian but I rarely get Norwegians coming up to me and speaking their native tongue here in the US but often get hit with the Spanish.
It pisses me of and offends me to no end but I have gotten thick skinned about it and it's funny to see their faces when I reply in my upper Midwestern accent and they realise that Spanish could probably not come from that mouth.
I for one am on the side of profiling by race and other obvious traits that could tip off non residents that could be illegal and have bad intent. The I 9 employment form has been a prejudicial inconvinience for US citizens since its inception as have many other ID requirements to prove who we are.
I can understand the OP's anger but considering the spotlight that is shinning on gun shows and firearm sales in general especially near the borders I can certainly not fault the dealer for being over cautious.
It has been pointed out already but think about the same situation in an other country and if the same scene could have even played out, then thank God your an American despite our faults. At least we still have ways to remedy our short comings.
It pisses me of and offends me to no end but I have gotten thick skinned about it and it's funny to see their faces when I reply in my upper Midwestern accent and they realise that Spanish could probably not come from that mouth.
I for one am on the side of profiling by race and other obvious traits that could tip off non residents that could be illegal and have bad intent. The I 9 employment form has been a prejudicial inconvinience for US citizens since its inception as have many other ID requirements to prove who we are.
I can understand the OP's anger but considering the spotlight that is shinning on gun shows and firearm sales in general especially near the borders I can certainly not fault the dealer for being over cautious.
It has been pointed out already but think about the same situation in an other country and if the same scene could have even played out, then thank God your an American despite our faults. At least we still have ways to remedy our short comings.
LemmyCaution
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't dealers at gun shows required to view ID of all purchasers as part of the 4473 process? Couldn't the dealer in this case simply have confirmed for himself the identity of the buyer?
What happened instead was the dealer assumed the buyer was a criminal and called security, not to confirm his ID, but to have him 'dealt with.'
It would be as if one went into a gun store and the proprietor called the police, based on the assumption that 'strange accent=foreign criminal,' when the proprietor could easily have confirmed a buyer's eligibility to purchase for himself, through the mandated official procedure.
There was no reason for security to get involved, whatsoever.
For those who think the OP has thin skin- you're the sort who think you have thick skin until this sort of thing happens to you.
For those who think that this is just one of those things that happens in a state of 'heightened security' (read: rampant hysteria)- you're cowards, literally and morally. The man is a United States citizen and deserves exactly the same fair treatment that any polo shirt wearing, white, anglo-saxon bourgeois consumer prig demands in any service sector environment. You can, in fact, be too careful. Being too careful is, ironically, the root of gun control.
For those who perceive (wrongly) that there is some tit-for-tat justice in treating a 'European' in the manner you assume you would be treated as a foreigner in Europe, again, the man is a United States citizen. It's doubtful you've spent any significant time out of US jurisdiction. I have done so; and have never been treated with anything but courtesy and respect (with one sad exception) by anyone- official or civilian- in traveling the world for twenty years.
For those who believe that 'profiling has its uses'- the law and the majority of civilized society disagree with you. You're wrong, and you've never been on the receiving end of negative profiling, or you wouldn't even suggest it. That isn't how America works, and shame on you for thinking that's how it should.
For the OP- I'm sorry you were treated this way. I'm embarrassed that things like this still happen in our country. I like to think that the US is a place that welcomes decent, hard working, law abiding people of all origins; where people treat each other with dignity and respect. I'm saddened when it turns out that's not always the case.
What happened instead was the dealer assumed the buyer was a criminal and called security, not to confirm his ID, but to have him 'dealt with.'
It would be as if one went into a gun store and the proprietor called the police, based on the assumption that 'strange accent=foreign criminal,' when the proprietor could easily have confirmed a buyer's eligibility to purchase for himself, through the mandated official procedure.
There was no reason for security to get involved, whatsoever.
For those who think the OP has thin skin- you're the sort who think you have thick skin until this sort of thing happens to you.
For those who think that this is just one of those things that happens in a state of 'heightened security' (read: rampant hysteria)- you're cowards, literally and morally. The man is a United States citizen and deserves exactly the same fair treatment that any polo shirt wearing, white, anglo-saxon bourgeois consumer prig demands in any service sector environment. You can, in fact, be too careful. Being too careful is, ironically, the root of gun control.
For those who perceive (wrongly) that there is some tit-for-tat justice in treating a 'European' in the manner you assume you would be treated as a foreigner in Europe, again, the man is a United States citizen. It's doubtful you've spent any significant time out of US jurisdiction. I have done so; and have never been treated with anything but courtesy and respect (with one sad exception) by anyone- official or civilian- in traveling the world for twenty years.
For those who believe that 'profiling has its uses'- the law and the majority of civilized society disagree with you. You're wrong, and you've never been on the receiving end of negative profiling, or you wouldn't even suggest it. That isn't how America works, and shame on you for thinking that's how it should.
For the OP- I'm sorry you were treated this way. I'm embarrassed that things like this still happen in our country. I like to think that the US is a place that welcomes decent, hard working, law abiding people of all origins; where people treat each other with dignity and respect. I'm saddened when it turns out that's not always the case.
X-Rap
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I made it clear in my post that I have had numerous occasions in which I have been treated as an immigrant from Mexico or places further south. This has happened also at BP check stations in NM and AZ. It pisses me off because I am a native citizen but I deal with it.
The employment paperwork is biased and intrusive against citizens in that we are treated as though we are all illegal. These are all pitfalls of a free society that allows such a great number of immigrants here legally and refuses to effectively stop the others.
As far as profiling is concerned, the most effective anti terrorist agencies in the world have used profiling for years and while being one of the most targeted countries have had few if any successful attacks after passing through any of their security.
Saying it doesn't work is like saying the death penalty is ineffective, if it is rarely enforced and watered down with legal and PC crap then yes it probably won't.
The employment paperwork is biased and intrusive against citizens in that we are treated as though we are all illegal. These are all pitfalls of a free society that allows such a great number of immigrants here legally and refuses to effectively stop the others.
As far as profiling is concerned, the most effective anti terrorist agencies in the world have used profiling for years and while being one of the most targeted countries have had few if any successful attacks after passing through any of their security.
Saying it doesn't work is like saying the death penalty is ineffective, if it is rarely enforced and watered down with legal and PC crap then yes it probably won't.
Arkansas Paul
Member
^ precisely x-rap. This is another topic that will be split down the middle.
Profiling is unfortunate, but I don't see it going away any time soon.
Profiling is unfortunate, but I don't see it going away any time soon.
I went to a Washington Arms Collectors gun show in Puyallup, WA last fall. There were some good military/LEO types and regular people there, and a crowd of, um, "interesting" people selling Nazi and Confederate stuff. A lot of the stuff at the show was crap and expensive. I won't be going back.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Please don't include these together. They don't mix.
NMGonzo
Member
The level of jackassery is pegging 'bout 11.
This one is generating more heat than light.
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