shady activity at the gunshow today

[mgkdrgn]

one of two things:

1) either you just didn't sell a gun to someone that shouldn't have one

2) you just didn't sell a gun to an undercover cop

either way, you done passed the test son.

 

[230RN]

I am reminded of the wag who said he preferred the "couch" method of selling a gun.

You use the same paperwork in selling a gun as you do in selling a couch.

But, then again, I'm not about to hang myself out to dry, either.

You did good. Listen to the hairs.

On the back of your neck.

 

[SyberShooter]

The fact that he offered information that he was not a resident and might get turned down points to an ATF sting. If someone is going to a show in another state to descretly buy a gun, they probably aren't going to wear a sign saying " illegal gun purchase wanted" - they also aren't going to tell you "hey, i'm from out of state and wanna buy a gun illegally" they are dumb as a rock if they do and don't deserve to own a gun in my book. That type of buyer has the intention to make the buy and get outta Dodge without being detected. The only realistic conclusion is that it was a setup.

It happens quite often at the local shows in Phoenix and Tucson. A couple weeks ago I was approached by an older guy wearing an NRA hat. He looked more like a mid-level manager in casual clothes than a gun nut. The more I talked with him the more he looked like a cop. He started a conversation about the revolver I was trying to sell and quickly moved to various unrelated topics that he mentioned he was from California and came to the show to buy a pistol (after saying he had several 9mm at home). At this indicator I promptly told him I would not sell him a gun and advised him for his own safety to not attempt to circumvent the law, as there could be ATF in the crowd and they would treat him to 10 years in the guest house. He seemed to ignore that advice and continued on, that he might be interested in my gun for a good cash price etc. I broke it off and walked away, certain he was trying to set me up.

 

[Defense Minister]

Good work, shooter...

I agree completely with the above posters who say to follow your "gut", and deny a firearms sale if it tells you to. If I sell a firearm in a private party transaction, I require the driver's license of the buyer and record it in a bill of sale. No license, no sale.

 

[Eightball]

1) either you just didn't sell a gun to someone that shouldn't have one

2) you just didn't sell a gun to an undercover cop

This works. Don't break the law, and just don't sell if something seems fishy.

Good deal, man.

 

[sernv99]

However, I wish we had some way of protecting ourselves from selling guns to criminals, who will end up only hurting our gun rights even more, if they use these weapons for criminal purposes

do your gun sales through an FFL. I only sell FTF if it's some sporting gun, like an over/under or field grade shotgun. I highly doubt a "criminal" is going to spend $3000 on a Beretta 682 Sporting clays shotgun to rob a liquor store. Never would I sell FTF a semi-auto hi-cap rifle. In addition, going through an FFL "relieves" you of potential liability in the event of a criminal act by the perp who bought your gun FTF. Yeah, you may have the "bill of sale" as proof, but do you have the time to go through the hassle of being interviewed by LE, dealing with potential lawsuit by the victims (even if your bill of sale is a get- out-of-jail-free card, you still have to take time to answer the suit and go through the motions of presenting your side of the case etc.). Seems to me, going through a FFL and having your name off the books as the owner of said firearm makes your liability zero.

The fact that he offered information that he was not a resident and might get turned down points to an ATF sting. if this was true, there is nothing wrong with that. This would get rid of the neanderthal gun sellers who are tempeted to skirt the law and give the rest of us gun owners a bad name. I'm also glad that the ATF, if true, was doing this aggresively in the border states.

 

[GonHuntin]

MachIVshooter wrote:

Nope. Federal law permits interstate transfer of long guns face to face by non-FFL's. They just have to go through FFL's if they are being shipped, and that also apples to in-state tranfers. If I am selling to a guy in the oppsosite corner of my state, unless I want to make a 400 mile trek, I've gotta use an FFL.

This is absolutely FALSE info!

First, It is illegal to transfer ownership of a weapon to a resident of another state without an FFL on the buyers end (with few exceptions).......has NOTHING to do with whether you ship the firearm or hand it to him!

Second, there is no federal law that requires dealer involvement in an INSTATE transfer regardless of whether you ship the firearm or hand it to the buyer.......

Don't know where you get your info, but it is WRONG!!

 

[BCCL]

I thought you could transfer long guns to people from states that physically bordered your state without an FFL??

 

[GonHuntin]

Nope


From the BATF FAQ

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm
B. UNLICENSED PERSONS


(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

(B16) What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction? [Back]

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3.

 

[Big Daddy Grim]

Good just in case he was a crimainal I would have done the samething but more than likely might have been a plant.