shady activity at the gunshow today

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shooterfromtexas

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was at gun show here in houston, tx trying to sell my rifle. bum approaches me and wants to buy my rifle. says that he just got here and wants to look around. I see him walk off and suddenly come back and says he wants to buy.

I say it's sold to him and he tells me he is a Louisiana resident and that we should proceed.

this raised red flag for me so I said, okay I cant sell it to you and he asks why not. I tell him because I can't sell to out of state resident, but tell him it's okay because I know an FFL who can do the transfer for $10 bucks only.

He says he doesnt want to pay the $10 bucks so I offered to knock the price down by $10 bucks. he mentions that he might get delayed or denied LOL.

so I said, nah you wont get denied unless you have something to hide lol. He pretty much just walked away from me and the dealer.

any thoughts?
 
It would have been illegal for you to sell the gun to him as an out of state resident without the FFL. Sounds like he was trying to buy a gun illegally and you stopped him from buying from you, good deal.
 
good job, you did the right thing. you can worry all you want that someone else ended up not doing the right thing and the bum got an illegal weapon, but all that will do is get you wrinkles. Do right and teach right to others is the best anyone can do. There will always be the bad guys out there, that's why we all like our guns isn't it? :D
 
Good job, you probably kept someone who shouldn't buy a gun from buying one. I'm not in favor of any new firearm-related laws but all responsible gun owners need to do our part to keep people who probably shouldn't own a gun from owning one. It's those few jerks who give most of us a bad name.
 
Well if this is the case, are you somehow indirectly supporting more regulations on private gun sales at gun shows? I mean what if the guy said he was a Texas resident and was a fugitive of justice? What if you sell your gun to a convicted felon who is going to use it for a robbery. I hope nobody gets pissed that I mentioned this. I personally hate having my guns registred by the state and having big brother keeping an eye on me. However, I wish we had some way of protecting ourselves from selling guns to criminals, who will end up only hurting our gun rights even more, if they use these weapons for criminal purposes. I don't support the Obama gun-show loophole, because I know his intentions are to just put an end to gun shows altogether. I, however, wish there was more measures in place to protect yourself in private transactions.
 
I thought that out of state ppl were allowed to buy rifles/shotguns am I mistaken?(wouldn't be the first time :) )
 
Purchase of long arms by an out of state resident are legal so long as

1. At one end OR the other it has to go through an FFL
2. Is legal to own in the buyers state (for example flash hider v muzzle brake)
3. OOS purchases are not illegal or further constrained by state level laws

This DOES NOT APPLY TO HANDGUNS.......different FFL rules
 
I thought that face to face, private transfers of firearms didn't have to go through any kind of FFL/government control... what ever happened to the famous "gunshow loophole" our brave politicians are always rambling on about?
 
There is no harm in not pursuing a deal that makes you uncomfortable.

Having said that - I believe that FTF deals for long guns across state lines *IS* legal per Federal law and is also permitted by TX state law. The key seems to be the FTF requirement and that the SELLER be an FFL..

There is a thread on this in the Legal forum right now, in fact. Ah, here it is:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=437385

Handguns? No so much. But long guns? Sure seems OK.

Having said all of this - calling the buyers' behavior shady is a bit perjorative. Many folk want a simple FTF deal with no 4473 for perfectly valid reasons.
 
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It would have been illegal for you to sell the gun to him as an out of state resident without the FFL. Sounds like he was trying to buy a gun illegally and you stopped him from buying from you, good deal.
Click to expand...

Nope. Federal law permits interstate transfer of long guns face to face by non-FFL's. They just have to go through FFL's if they are being shipped, and that also apples to in-state tranfers. If I am selling to a guy in the oppsosite corner of my state, unless I want to make a 400 mile trek, I've gotta use an FFL.

Shooterfromtexas-

Good call. While you wouldn't have violated any laws by selling to him (unless he actually dislosed that he was prohibited), it is our resposibility to be good judges of character WRT selling firearms. This is why I typically only sell to friends or people than can be vouched for by someone I trust. Anyone I don't know personally gets to sign a bill of sale stating, among other things, that they are not prohibited from possessing firearms. Though not very legally binding, the BOS was drafted by an attorney and looks intimidating enough for someone who knows they shouldn't be buying.

I do believe very staunchly that anyone free to roam the public should be able to own a firearm, but I'm not about to martyr myself making a point that will never be heard, or be cast off as radical because I won't have the opportunity to explain a few fundamentals about that belief. As well, until our justice system is up to par, this principle of freedom cannot be employed soundly.
 
Wait, wait wait wait, I could buy a long gun out of state like, say, Indiana or Michigan if their/my state law allowed it? Crike me...if that's the case, I've been denying myself a lot of deals.

Actually, this enlightenment could be bad for my wallet.
 
But remember - it must be a Face2Face deal and the seller must be an FFL.
 
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Ah, but of course. I always prefer face to face deals. I just didn't know I could drive across state lines (provided state laws allowed) to purchase a long gun legally.

And here all along I've been avoiding good deals in neighboring states...
 
I don't know what the laws are. If I want to sell a gun I think that is my business.

I do think the OP did the right thing. He smelled a rat and passed on the deal. If he had bought the gun through a dealer then his name would be tied to that gun from now on. If that buyer did something illegal with the gun and the cops got it they will be over to talk to you.
 
Wow, it's pretty sad that even moderators are spreading bad info. It's never legal for a non-FFL to transfer a gun to a resident of another state who's also a non-FFL. Period. It doesn't matter if it's a long gun vs. a handgun. It doesn't matter if it's done face to face vs. shipped. It doesn't matter which two states the people are residents of. It's illegal.

If you disagree, read 18 USC 922(a)(3), and tell me how it does not apply.
 
shooterfromtexas, just to clarify to story, was the buyer actually a "bum" (i.e. an obviously homeless individual) or just a guy?

Either way, it sounds to me like you did the right thing. If you get a bad vibe, by all means pass on the deal.
 
Why? So long as the buyer was not a prohibited person - the transfer WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGAL.
Click to expand...

Look at what he told him "he mentions that he might get delayed or denied LOL."

He was deliberately leading him into what he would have known was a possible illegal sale.

I've seen ATF try this at gun shows first hand.
 
If this "bum" is the one I saw at the Pasadena show he's no bum. As a matter of fact I've seen him at those shows for years and he's always buying or selling guns.

Just because a guy looks like a bum doesn't mean he is. He may have more guns and money than the rest of us... :neener:
 
Here in Portland there's a few cops hanging around. I would have told them so they could watch the guy.
 
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