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Judge/Governor Hate

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Mr. Mosin, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I wouldn't say "useless" but it's far from awe inspiring. Especially the standard slugs which are pretty anemic
     
  2. Rubone

    Rubone Member

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    I don't hate either of them. But have no interest in either so there is that.:D
     
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  3. DeepSouth
    • Contributing Member

    DeepSouth Contributing Member

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    I’ve been saying for a few years I was going to get one for snakes. Mainly to wear while picking peas, I honestly can’t think of another thing I’d use it for, but like some other guns after I get it I find it to a great (albeit pointless) range gun.
     
  4. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    View attachment 1010123 upload_2021-7-7_21-32-54.png
    I don't hate the Judge/Governor. I feel sorry for it. I just can't help but feel sorry for a revolver that is almost as ugly as a Rhino revolver.:neener:
     
    Roknstevo, drobs, WisBorn and 3 others like this.
  5. hemiram

    hemiram Member

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    I've fired a friend's Judge a few times and I liked it well enough to think about getting one, or a Governor, but never seem to want one bad enough to actually do it. I really really like the squishy grip on it, and I'm wondering if one will fit on my oddball Taurus 658 8 shot 357 3" no porting:
    The "scratches" are solely due to camera flash, the gun is in 99%+ condition:
    Xc0hq7.jpg
     
    Ru4real, .308 Norma and Mr. Mosin like this.
  6. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Have you shot much 410 slugs? Just about all the 410 slugs on the market will produce 650 ft-lbs or more from a shotgun length barrel. The Brenneke slugs produce 1000 ft-lbs from my 24-in Win 9410 barrel. The only problem is the horrible BC which limits range to fairly short range but within that range it is a mild recoiling cartridge with 357 mag levels of energy with light for caliber projectiles.

    cvl5weKm.jpg
    2aLbc0cm.jpg
    Both deer taken using a Winchester 9410 shotgun. The top one with 410 Remington Sluggers and the bottom with 410 Brenneke slugs.
     
    BlueHeelerFl, ThomasT and Ru4real like this.
  7. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    While I never used 410 slugs for deer since they are/were illegal for deer hunting in Missouri, they do work great for knocking a treed raccoon to the ground.
     
  8. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Maybe it should be started in the shotgun forum, over there there is a crown that doesn’t think it’s even good enough for dove hunting….:)
     
  9. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Missouri specifically allows 410 slugs in their hunting regulations. A little over half the states in the US allow 410 slugs for deer hunting.
     
  10. memtb

    memtb Member

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    I killed my first deer at 1 years old, with a 410. My Dad stepped it off at around 55 yards. Believe me.....it was just the deers bad day. I didn’t hit were I was aiming, the slug didn’t penetrate very deeply and had I not hit a major vein in the neck.....the deer would have likely died of old age! :D memtb
     
  11. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    Then the Department of Conservation changed the rules at some point after I stopped hunting due to disabilities. Growing up and as a young adult, 410 slugs were illegal for use during deer season.
     
  12. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Do I really need to if I understand external ballistics.
    Energy especially when used as a single determinent can be very misleading as it ignores momentum. There's another "problem" with light for caliber besides BC and that's sectional density, a 110gr .410 projectile has a SD of .09, which leads to poor penetration less than 9" in ballistic gel. That doesn't leave much margin for error but hey Belle Twin killed a world record grizzly with a 22. Bella-Twin-is-shown-with-the-hide-from-the-world-record-grizzly-bear.jpg
    Heck my LCP 380 penetrates better and is legal in Kansas anybody think that's a good idea?
     
  13. GNP

    GNP Member

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    They sure look heavy.
     
  14. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Yeah you do sometimes, because sometimes real world testing defies a high level look at the numbers and you learn little things otherwise overlooked. When I first though about deer hunting with 410 slugs (lived in a slug only state) everyone told me they would not work on deer. I decided to figure out if and why that was true and in the end figure out that if your willing to live within their relatively short effective range they can and do work fairly well.

    For example the Brenneke Slugs are hard case lead (Unlike most other 410 slugs). A 114gr hard cast slug launched at ~2000 fps from my 24 inch Win 9410 produces ~1000 ft-lbs of energy and penetrates better than its horrible BC might indicate due to this hard-cast construction. Before hunting with them I tested them for both accuracy and terminal effect. In wet phone books and water jugs that Brenneke 410 slug out penetrated a 40 caliber 180gr XTP launched at 1300 fps into the same test mediums. It also retained it's weight better too. The second deer in my above post was shot through the spine on the first shot and a follow up shot through chest. Both slugs, even the one the broke the deer's back, exited the animal and that Ohio buck weight in at nearly 200 lbs live weight.
     
    ThomasT likes this.
  15. mcb

    mcb Member

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    They look heavy but they really are not. A Taurus Judge 3-inch barrel and the S&W Governor only weigh ~29 oz. For comparison a Model 10 Heavy barrel weight ~34 oz. The cylinder is big but has great big holes in it removing the majority of the mass.
     
  16. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    +1
     
  17. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    IMO, the more people that own and use judges, the better. They think the action always starts at 7 yards and I find comfort in that.

    I don't own a judge, and I practice with my revolvers out to 50 yards. I think you can see why I feel pretty comfortable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
    DocRock likes this.
  18. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    No hate here, but I do not favor the concept, either. Excess free-bore does me no favors regarding velocity or accuracy, with .45 bullets, and that added overall length results in a clumsier weapon. I can bring CCI .45 Colt shot shells along, which is far less bother than carrying .410 shot shells and a longer, heavier dual-purpose revolver.
     
  19. DR505

    DR505 Member

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    Unless that is a typo, you were one exceptional child! Most 1 year olds can’t even hold up a firearm, much less slay a deer with one.
     
    memtb likes this.
  20. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    I would tend to think "most action" starts at fairly close distances.

    Distance equates to time, and where you really need the proficiency, is usually more up close, than farther away. Farther away, becomes more like "target shooting". Close up shooting is a bit different.

    I havent shot my Governor past 25 yards, but at that distance, it shoots about the same as my other revolvers.

    At most distances, Id be as comfortable with the Governor as I would be with one of my other revolvers.

    The Governor is basically the same size as a 4" 625, and its lighter to boot. Both guns use the same moon clips too.

    q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz_FkN7mvIu_jBezfEfTzTZOV7ntXQOewWgszVPDOQPWWw?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium.jpg
     
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  21. Palladan44

    Palladan44 Member

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    In real life I would have no practical use for one. In "Call of Duty" the governor is a pretty sweet zombie duster... in early waves anyways....

    For SD im a firm believer in service "duty" calibers.
    For woods/hunting here in Wisconsin i like 357-44mag

    I saw my uncle carry either a Governor or Taurus judge when fishing in the Kenai peninsula (he lives up there year round) He alternated buckshot and slugs in the cylinder....for what reason, I dont know.
    Again, probably enough firepower to scare off a bear, but I wouldnt choose it over other offerings.

    It has versatility- yes, but doesnt come close to mastering any handgun role. I dont need one.
     
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  22. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    See what I mean? And this assumption is why you own a gov.

    Plenty of recent examples of further distances. The Texas example of motorcyclist stopping traffic and walking back aiming at SUV with kids inside, is one.
     
    .308 Norma likes this.
  23. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    No, I dont see what you mean at all. And what I stated I believe you will find is just a fact.

    I own a Governor because I was bored when I bought it, and it was different, and I figured, why not? As with most things Im not familiar with and spend some quality time with, I also actually learned a lot with and about it, and I actually know what it is, and what it isnt now. And its a bit more than you seem to be guessing it is. ;)

    Im not saying things dont happen at longer distances and I agree 110% that you should be capable of shooting at longer distances, which is something I dont think the majority of people even bother practicing with a handgun either, but as I said "most" encounters tend to be fairly close.

    But of course, everyone can come up with a contrary incident to try and make their point.

    And just to be clear, while I havent shot my Governor at 50 yards, I wouldnt have a problem doing so, and would expect to have similar hits at that distance as I would my 625, or one of my 44's or 357's, 9mm's, ect at those same distances (shooting 45 Colt or 45acp). And I shoot at 25 and 50 yards like I do all other distances, unsupported and on my feet, and I base my capabilities on that. I dont shoot off a rest or bench, like most of the people Ive seen who shoot at those distances with a handgun.

    Might I suggest you actually get out and give one a good try sometime, and see what the real deal is, Ill bet you have a whole different outlook on things next time you post. ;)
     
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  24. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    As I said, for folks who know guns and want a just because gun - why not. The objection was marketing it to newbies as the hammer of Thor based on the 410 round and being a you don't have to aim shotgun. There was a commercial of some woman in a garage and a stalker approached, she pulled out a Judge. I would much prefer her to pull out a Glock 19 or similar gun that she had trained to use. So silly gun vs. advertising push was central to the old Judge thread.

    Several trainers ran them and reviewed them and were unimpressed as a SD gun. Of course, it is a gun and better than naught but you could do better.

    There are silly guns I want also, but not the primary EDC or home SD gun.
     
  25. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    C'mon now, If everyone did this it would ruin gun forums on the internet.
     
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