That is about all there are in the city. 3 maybe 4. Quite a few good shop on the periphery but in the city of Seattle itself theres not too many gun shops or places to buy ammo for that matter. Theyre kidding themselves if they think they are going to make $1/2 million in taxes off this crap. This is a symbolic act like the city of Berkeley banning nuclear weapons .
Judge upholds Seattle 'gun violence tax' despite challenge from gun rights groups
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The tax is 2 cents per round for rimfire and 5 cents per round for centerfire. So a rimfire brick will have $10 tax added to it. That's a 20% to 45% tax at today's rimfire prices.
We need to get this one appealed and win, as if this sticks we'll see it happening in a bunch of other cities in the state and it will spread to other states. It is nice that in WA, if a city gets a gun law ruled against it, they have to pay the legal fees of the challenger. Seattle has already done that previously and had to write a big check to the SAF. You'd think that would put a damper on things, but they are just spending taxpayer money and many of the liberals in Seattle would support that. But the previous one was obviously against the state preemption, so I'd be upset at having to fork out legal fees for such an obvious violation of the law.
To me, the state preemption is a little bit gray on this. If you could show it is punitive or effectively eliminating guns or ammo sales, it could be overturned. I'm not so sure taxes itself fits in to all of the things state preemption covers, but I think it is the intent. I think the only tax that could definitely survive a challenge is a tax across everything, like a sales tax.
We need to get this one appealed and win, as if this sticks we'll see it happening in a bunch of other cities in the state and it will spread to other states. It is nice that in WA, if a city gets a gun law ruled against it, they have to pay the legal fees of the challenger. Seattle has already done that previously and had to write a big check to the SAF. You'd think that would put a damper on things, but they are just spending taxpayer money and many of the liberals in Seattle would support that. But the previous one was obviously against the state preemption, so I'd be upset at having to fork out legal fees for such an obvious violation of the law.
To me, the state preemption is a little bit gray on this. If you could show it is punitive or effectively eliminating guns or ammo sales, it could be overturned. I'm not so sure taxes itself fits in to all of the things state preemption covers, but I think it is the intent. I think the only tax that could definitely survive a challenge is a tax across everything, like a sales tax.
Evergreen
Member
Taxing falls under the boundaries of regulating.. Once again, what stops them from making a $5 tax on every round? At .05 a round , it already will make ammunition too expensive to buy.
I don't think the ruling of a King County court judge will have much bearing, it is when it hits the Appeals Court that we will have a more bipartisan judgment on what appears to be a clear violation.
If nothing else, the city of Seattle arbitrary gun tax numbers will be questioned and the legal backing of them.
Tomorrow, they can impose a $500 tax on each gun because of all the "gun" violence. The counties can impose a sales tax to make up for whatever deficit that they feel is needed to help with "gun violence" , but they will have to raise the sales tax across the board. There is no such thing as a "Sin Tax" in Washington that does not get approved at the state level. I believe, Washington's tax laws also will bear into this case, which also have a level of preemption.
Each county has the right to impose B&O tax and a sales tax, but cannot pick and choose which items they tax more than others. I'm not 100% sure if I am correct here, but would love someone to show me some legal documentation proving the cities have the right to make "sin taxes" on their own accord.
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He'll go out of business anyway if he's trying to compete with online pricing.
bikemutt
Member
Cities everywhere tax activity that may not occur to the same degree as some other city. How can one city have parking meters and another doesn't? Heck, I recall driving through some southern states where in one county I couldn't buy a beer, in the next one I could buy a fifth at a drive through.
I'm sure if a city used it's taxing authority in an abusive fashion they'd be easily and successfully challenged, the judge in this case believed the city's version of why, and how much.
Not saying I agree with it, but this isn't some new deal Seattle invented, they simply applied the leverage they have as a city.
I'm sure the gloating by SAF and others when they successfully challenged a real preemption grab a few years back should not be counted out as payback as well. When you win you should just accept, and enjoy, the win, then move on; kick the dog, get ready to get bit sooner or later.
I'm sure if a city used it's taxing authority in an abusive fashion they'd be easily and successfully challenged, the judge in this case believed the city's version of why, and how much.
Not saying I agree with it, but this isn't some new deal Seattle invented, they simply applied the leverage they have as a city.
I'm sure the gloating by SAF and others when they successfully challenged a real preemption grab a few years back should not be counted out as payback as well. When you win you should just accept, and enjoy, the win, then move on; kick the dog, get ready to get bit sooner or later.
He's not right but if he was right wouldn't he need to tax the automobiles also?
The simple facts are that no one will buy there ammo or there guns in the city so there really will not be any applicable increase in tax revenue.
Just another liberal playing to the voters.
The simple facts are that no one will buy there ammo or there guns in the city so there really will not be any applicable increase in tax revenue.
Just another liberal playing to the voters.
Federal cigarette taxes are $1.01 per pack and Washington state adds another $3.02. Apparently a pack of smokes is about $8 so that is a 100% tax. (Washington isn't even in the top 5 for tobacco taxes)
indyogb
Member
This is a bit dangerous - it's the "back door" to getting a 'ban by another name'. I'm sure some legislators in California and Massachusetts are burning the midnight oil to draft similar bills.
I'm not sure how you really stop it. After all if 'mandate', 'penalty', and 'tax' really all mean the same thing legally, then charging a penalty/tax on a firearm, by corollary, should be legal.
I'm not sure how you really stop it. After all if 'mandate', 'penalty', and 'tax' really all mean the same thing legally, then charging a penalty/tax on a firearm, by corollary, should be legal.
bikemutt
Member
The strategy I'm seeing emerge is roughly as follows: every gun starts life being sold through a licensed dealer to a law abiding buyer. Then maybe it gets sold, stolen etc. until it ends up on the street, and becomes a violent gun 
Anyway, if gun dealers are driven out of business, eventually the supply drys up. Less guns, less gun violence, and so on.
San Francisco's last gun store closed recently, Seattle's probably not far behind. It's how the antis roll these days.
Anyway, if gun dealers are driven out of business, eventually the supply drys up. Less guns, less gun violence, and so on.
San Francisco's last gun store closed recently, Seattle's probably not far behind. It's how the antis roll these days.
last time i was in seattle, there were three gun stores in the entire city (that i know of), they pretty well ran them out years ago. Last time Butch's told me that seattle now had an 'air' tax, and was making them take down signs. How can they make 500K per year like that?
Bobson
Member
Don't put this on the PD. Do you think the police department has a guy run down to the local gun shop to supply the department?
toivo
Member
Well, they're certainly optimistic. I expect it to raise bupkis, since it will drive all gun and ammo sales outside the city limits. In fact, by driving the last few gun shops in Seattle out of business, it may actually end up lowering the city's tax revenues.
Oh, but it was important to "do something," doncha know.
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Evergreen
Member
Many also forget that these "gun stores" like Outdoor Emporium are giant revenue earners for the city of Seattle and a majority of their sales are not even firearm related. In fact, Outdoor Emporium sells many more items then guns, such as camping and fishing equipment, clothing , etc. This is a lot of revenue the city of Seattle will kiss goodbye, along with all the jobs and the $15/min wages the city so unscrupulously enforced in the city. In fact, considering the city of Seattle has made it so hard on smaller businesses to function in the city, they should have been kneeling down and kissing the behinds of a large retailer like this. Seattle already lacks good outdoors type stores compared to the cities around it. How many people will travel all the way to Olympia or to Marysville to good to a large outdoor retailer like Cabelas, since a large city like Seattle, will not allow such deviance in their city?
As much as I hate this law and how it could lead to a total gun ban in the city, as they will make guns impossible to afford, I do think its great to not give the city of Seattle any more money than you have to.. I'm sure Burien, Sea-Tac, Bellevue, Kirkland, Lynnwood, Mountlake Terrace, etc would be honored to gain these retailers. Seattle is also a very condensed and compact city, which means travelling out of the city to surrounding cities is not so challenging.
The problem is you have a very radical, left-wing fascist city government in a very socially libertarian/conservative state. King County is pretty liberal too, but Seattle is in a league of its own. The city is both utterly fascist/socialist and extremely hostile to businesses, yet is tempered by the state government. If it was not for the state government of Washington, being so pro-business and capitalist, e.g. no state taxes, etc, Seattle would probably have deteriorated into another Detroit by now. It would have been the Detroit of the Pacific with the type of insane government running the city. Seattle wrongly claims it helps save Washington state, whereas in reality, Washington state has given birth to a very successful business environment. Seattle's prime location and long standing corporate and blue collar industries that were remnants of the mindset of the old Seattle are the only reason the city can still be successful and desirable.
I for see in the next 50 years, that Bellevue will eventually overshadow Seattle as the major city center of the region, as the city has much less regulation and a much more business minded and more libertarian leaning city government compared to Seattle. Ironically, Bellevue, despite being a fraction the size of Seattle has more gun stores than the city of Seattle. With the Microsoft money going heavily into Bellevue and the giant campus in Redmond, I see Bellevue becoming its very own cosmopolitan center, which it is beginning to have. Seattle may be the place were grungy hipsters hang out and party, but Bellevue and the Eastside will become the town where businesses flourish without the draconian regulations the fascist city-state of Seattle will impose. Many reputable IT startups and of course Fortune 500 are being operated on the Eastside now. Google has decided to make Kirkland its home in the Pacific Northwest. If the insanity in California keeps spiraling out of control, it would not surprise me if one day the mega corp Google moves its main operations to Kirkland, WA. THINK.. Cheaper rent, no state tax, less regulations, etc, This would result in a huge demographic shift for the Eastside, as Seattle's unmanageable road system forces everyone to live on the Eastside to be near their jobs.
As much as I hate to say it, I would like the city of Seattle to become a ghost town inhabited by coyotes and vultures. I'd love the city to just turn into a heap of rubble. I express my condolences to the good that once existed in Seattle. Washington will become the best place to live in the country if we could just remove this wretched city from the state.
As much as I hate this law and how it could lead to a total gun ban in the city, as they will make guns impossible to afford, I do think its great to not give the city of Seattle any more money than you have to.. I'm sure Burien, Sea-Tac, Bellevue, Kirkland, Lynnwood, Mountlake Terrace, etc would be honored to gain these retailers. Seattle is also a very condensed and compact city, which means travelling out of the city to surrounding cities is not so challenging.
The problem is you have a very radical, left-wing fascist city government in a very socially libertarian/conservative state. King County is pretty liberal too, but Seattle is in a league of its own. The city is both utterly fascist/socialist and extremely hostile to businesses, yet is tempered by the state government. If it was not for the state government of Washington, being so pro-business and capitalist, e.g. no state taxes, etc, Seattle would probably have deteriorated into another Detroit by now. It would have been the Detroit of the Pacific with the type of insane government running the city. Seattle wrongly claims it helps save Washington state, whereas in reality, Washington state has given birth to a very successful business environment. Seattle's prime location and long standing corporate and blue collar industries that were remnants of the mindset of the old Seattle are the only reason the city can still be successful and desirable.
I for see in the next 50 years, that Bellevue will eventually overshadow Seattle as the major city center of the region, as the city has much less regulation and a much more business minded and more libertarian leaning city government compared to Seattle. Ironically, Bellevue, despite being a fraction the size of Seattle has more gun stores than the city of Seattle. With the Microsoft money going heavily into Bellevue and the giant campus in Redmond, I see Bellevue becoming its very own cosmopolitan center, which it is beginning to have. Seattle may be the place were grungy hipsters hang out and party, but Bellevue and the Eastside will become the town where businesses flourish without the draconian regulations the fascist city-state of Seattle will impose. Many reputable IT startups and of course Fortune 500 are being operated on the Eastside now. Google has decided to make Kirkland its home in the Pacific Northwest. If the insanity in California keeps spiraling out of control, it would not surprise me if one day the mega corp Google moves its main operations to Kirkland, WA. THINK.. Cheaper rent, no state tax, less regulations, etc, This would result in a huge demographic shift for the Eastside, as Seattle's unmanageable road system forces everyone to live on the Eastside to be near their jobs.
As much as I hate to say it, I would like the city of Seattle to become a ghost town inhabited by coyotes and vultures. I'd love the city to just turn into a heap of rubble. I express my condolences to the good that once existed in Seattle. Washington will become the best place to live in the country if we could just remove this wretched city from the state.
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danez71
Member
Apparently guns are racist,,, too?
Devonai
Member
Seattle's total budget for 2014 was 4.3 billion. Obviously that extra half million was what they really needed to fix the problem.
By the time this winds its way through the court system it will cost the city of
Seattle, I mean tax payer, many time the amount the city expects to get in revenue. But then again Seattle residents Your local government has your money to spend and they will spend it until you are broke.
Seattle, I mean tax payer, many time the amount the city expects to get in revenue. But then again Seattle residents Your local government has your money to spend and they will spend it until you are broke.
CoalTrain49
Member
I live in the area. I've also lived in Seattle. Cabela's just built a new store about 20 minutes north of Seattle in another county. I would bet dollars to donuts that the political climate in Seattle was one of the reasons they didn't build there. Cabela's also built a new store in the city of Lacey WA about an hour south of Seattle. Seattle used to be known for it's outdoor retailers like REI, Eddie Bauer and Filson.
So Seattle has sent a message to the outdoor community more or less with this new law.
We don't want your business.
Matters little to me. The place is a pit anyway.
So Seattle has sent a message to the outdoor community more or less with this new law.
We don't want your business.
Matters little to me. The place is a pit anyway.
indyogb said:
This is the real travesty. We all know this taxation will not lower crime, but it will force out gun-dealers for the law-abiding within city limits. It's only a matter of time before that tax extends to the rest of the state because "all that gun crime in Seattle is still rising because of criminals buying guns by bad dealers and using them in the city". We "the people" need to be able to sue politicians for failed policies and wasted tax-payer's money.
ROCK6
OilyPablo
Member
The odd thing about many gun lovers in Seattle, they keep voting for the wrong people and then ask "What happened?"
thecarfarmer
Member
Go down to Precise Shooter (where Butch's used to be): 9mm for as low as $10.99/box; .22 Mini Mag (on the shelf) for $7.99/100 count box.
They've had these prices for a while, but not much longer... Seattle is causing them the problems, not competing with internet stores.
http://www.preciseshooter.com/AmmunitionHome.aspx
Although I live in Mountlake Terrace, I go down to support this store. And will continue to do so.
Bill
Evergreen
Member
I wouldn't blame the gun lovers in Seattle on voting for these people. Rather, Seattle has a significant population of gun haters who vote for these politicians. Even though King County has a sizable firearm enthusiast community, the only reason people in Seattle are allowed to own guns at all is because the state of Washington is a preemptive state that, as a whole, supports the rights and freedoms of gun owners.
Seattle is inhabited with a large number of very liberal Californian, Chicagoan and Northeast transplants who think guns and capitalism are from the devil. I know, I have spent enough time in Seattle to see the whacky uber-leftist weirdos this city is breeding. The demographics of Seattle have changed profoundly in the last 15 years. It use to be more of a libertarian, blue collar city, but now is trying to become San Francisco North.
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