Just got a visit from the cops

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PotatoJudge

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This might be a bit OT, but I was just visited by the local PD and had a pretty good experience. Thought I'd share.

About noon I'm in the laundry room folding clothes with some music going. My wife is out of town with the dog so it's just me and two cats, living like most of us would when the wife is out of town i.e. playing with guns and making a mess. The doorbell rings and I'm not expecting anybody. We live in a hit or miss neighborhood and every so often we get a person at the door working their con. I grab the closest pistol (CZ-52) and stick it in my back pocket on the way to the front door. At this point I decide to walk past the front door, on creaky wood floors, to look out my dining room window in case it's the neighbor so I don't freak them out having a gun in my pocket if they end up coming in for something. What I saw was three cops (vests, cargo pants, all that) on my steps. I drop my gun in the couch and answer the door. They ask me if they can come in and talk and I say sure (I know I could have left them on the steps). One officer starts with the small talk, introductions, anyone else in the house and all that while the other two kind of start milling around (looking for probable cause). I inform the cop nearest the couch that there's a pistol in the cushions because I didn't know who was at the door. He drops the mag and unloads the chamber, placing it all on the coffee table. They tell me there's been reports of drug dealing, so I say "What, like in the neighborhood?" and they respond "at this address." Okay.

At this point I should mention that I'm an M.D. and my wife is almost done with her Ph.D. We have the nicest, best kept house on the street, and there's an Audi A6 in the driveway. Everyone knows us and we get along with everybody. We're the least likely people around to be dealing drugs to the point that it's comical.

At this point the cop asks if it's okay if they search the house. I think about it for a second as the officer tells me they're obligated to check out the tip and if they can have a look around they can drop the whole thing. I tell them it's fine, and let them know there's guns and gun stuff all over the place, that it's a hobby of mine. While they search the house I'm still talking to the same officer, he gets my ID, asks what I do for a living and all that kind of stuff. Wants to know if we've made enemies that would try to set us up or if we have guests over at odd hours. I tell him I don't think I've even made anyone mad recently. Another officer says something like "what's with all the guns?" so I told him "for when it's not you guys" and they have a pretty good laugh. One of the officers comes out of the bedroom with a big smile on his face and says "Hey, is that all your reloading stuff. Do you hunt? How many guns do you have anyway?" About then everyone starts to leave and the officer that unloaded my gun picks up the chambered round and hands it to me saying "here's your round back" and they all leave. They were nice as could be, friendly, and pretty straightforward about the whole thing.

I went out to explain to the neighbors what was going on as they'd all gathered on their lawns. One of them stops her car as she's leaving and is laughing as she tells me that they asked if I was a drug dealer and she told them no, we were doctors. Apparently they had been talking to the neighbors while they were at my place. Pretty well run for a little 5 or 10 minute operation.

Some things I'm glad I did:
1. Checked to see who was at the door. Things would have been very different (not the outcome, but tension) if I had had the gun in my pocket.
2. I let them in to talk and let them search the house. I know what the lawyers will say and the paranoid folk, but I've been searched while armed now a couple of times and honesty and cooperation have been the things that keep me out of cuffs.
3. Explained myself to the neighbors, and got the whole story. Apparently the tip was for XXX Jones St (empty lot?) while I live at XXX E Jones. Another good chance to come together as a community as I let the lady across the street know I will be out of town so she can keep an eye out.

Anything I overlooked, did wrong, or could do better next time?
 
I NEVER would have let them in, NEVER would have let them search my house. Not until they had a warrant in hand and me in cuffs. To my knowledge, there's nothing illegal in my house, but I don't need a group of cops poking around trying to find something.
 
Yeah.................not let them search your house. Maybe they could have figured it out for themselves. Don't view this as a positive experience. An embarrassment at he least and violation of your privacy IMO.
 
Then again, I live in urban Massachusetts, you live in Texas - they probably don't treat gun owners like criminals in Texas. Can't say the same for the People's Republic of Mass... But still, I'd never let them search the place.
 
I would of let them search... no reason not to. Might as well let them waste their time, and provide myself with some entertainment. :)


It's not at all a violation of your privacy. They have to ask, and you don't have to say yes. Violation of privacy? Not at all.
 
Things went fine in your case, but I still feel its best to treat cops like Vampires. You just don't invite them in.
 
I'm actually in Louisiana now which is even more gun friendly. As has been said, I knew all along I could have said no. They did nothing without my permission. They did not disarm me. At the time I considered the "what if they find..." whatever, but there's nothing. They were clearly there for a specific purpose, and that's fine with me. Not all leads lead to busts, but you never know until you look. I'm glad they're out there chasing down the bad element in this part of town. It's on the verge of being part of a nice neighborhood and I'd like to see it keep going in that direction.

I'm used to the recommendations of the snarky responses to "invasions of privacy" (feel free to search "doctors" on THR) but clearly my response led to a better outcome than being rude. Something to think about.
 
yes, no, maybe, .... probably not..

it's great that you played nice with the officers.. some of them I know that do knock and talks, if they have to get a warrant, you would be cleaning the house for the next two weekends..

Not sure I would have let one wander around the house without you with him.. not saying that he would.. but some wandering souls have been known to drop plant bags and come back later.. I would be doing some checking on my own..

Then again, it's your neighborhood, your domain, so only you can decide..
 
You did fine. You were aware of your rights, exercised reason, and made an informed decision. You extended courtesy and received the same, and the goodwill you and the officers shared will inure to the benefit of all.

As you figured, they were probably checking out a "tip" from some junkie they had arrested who was throwing out addresses in exchange for lesser charges or sentencing for assisting with an arrest and prosecution of "dealers." Where here they apparently didn't get the right (or full) address, either way, next time they get a hot "tip" about something fishy going on at your address, it'll get eyed with deep suspicion by the police.
 
I'm used to the recommendations of the snarky responses to "invasions of privacy" (feel free to search "doctors" on THR) but clearly my response led to a better outcome than being rude. Something to think about.

Agreed. And although someone said it was an "embarrassment" I just don't see where anyone involved was embarrassed. The cops were doing their job, no I don't see anyone looking down on them for following a lead. You were mature and handled it just fine, so I don't see any embarrassment for you.

Seems pretty positive to me; no one was harmed or taken advantage of and you got to know some cops who are trying to make your community a better place you and likely made a favorable impression on them -- I can think of a lot worse.
 
JMOfartO:

Many, many years ago (I'm 67) I would probably have let the leo's in my home without a warrant, and given them free rein to poke and prod without a 2nd thought..

But in 2010, I would have respectfully and if possible tactfully, declined their kind offer.

I don't trust my Government anymore... And it's sad it has come to that.

There was a time when the FBI, ATF, etc. were respected and looked up to by the majority of LAW-abiding citizens, of which I consider myself one.

But Ruby Ridge, WACO and such has me paranoid, and I just think it's prudent now to make sure everything is on the "up and up" when leo's want to wander thru my home on a fishing expedition.

I wish it was like was, not how it is.... But it "is" what it "is" in the United States of 2010..

Just personal opinion,

Jesse
 
Had one of the officers been convinced that one of the firearms related items he saw, was in some way prohibited or restricted/regulated and you otherwise shouldn't have it, you'd have greatly regretted allowing the search.
 
Had one of the officers been convinced that one of the firearms related items he saw, was in some way prohibited or restricted/regulated and you otherwise shouldn't have it, you'd have greatly regretted allowing the search.

Thankfully, last night I cleaned and put away all but two handguns so there wasn't much for them to see but the odd holster and reloading supplies. I don't own any EBRs or anything remotely resembling a prohibited device. No flash hiders, fake or real suppressors, nothing. I did a mental run through of the house while officer was telling me that if they could search the place they could be done today (which of course is just a line to convince me to let them search).

I completely understand not allowing them to search the house, and I seriously considered saying no. I thought back to the advice I've heard on THR and from lawyers and decided to do it differently. If I wanted to use this encounter to make a point about my rights I would have gladly said no, but this was something else. Now had it been a federal agency things would have gone down differently, warrants and lawyers would have to be involved. This was a mix of sheriffs and local cops. They're not out to get me. I just don't have that many layers of tin foil in my hat.
 
Some advice from a lawyer:

The cops aren't your 'friends' and never give them consent for anything!

The local, state and federal laws are mind-bogglingly confusing. For instance, lets say you move from KY (where 11+ round magazines are legal) to NY, NJ, CA, etc... where possession of those same magazines are a misdemeanor *gasp* a felony! You inadvertently possess them and an innocent search of your home now lands you in prison!

Now most of us know enough to know that certain areas have magazine restrictions. However, there are many many laws that are inadvertently broken by otherwise law abiding citizens who just don't know any better - and would need an attorney to interpret the statutes of some states.

For instance, possession of brass knuckes or a switchblade, even in your home, in some places is illegal!

Trying to be helpful for police will do you no good and could end up causing you a lot of grief.

My answer would be to politely tell them that if they want to search the home they need a warrant specifically stating the reasons and locations based on probable cause.
 
You aren't doing the rest of the gun-owning public any favors by telling the police its OK to search your house just because they feel like it.

Its your house. You do what you want.

But since you bothered to post about it here, let me say I don't appreciate what you did.
 
Once you voluntarily allow the police into your home(for any reason)you have given up your rights and they can now search your house at will.

When I was a reserve the regulars used to use the "It's cold out here,can we talk inside?" ruse to get entry to the house. At that point the occupants were "secured" and the dwelling searched at their leisure. Worked every time even in up-scale areas.
 
Advice from an old ex-cop...

...it is extremely foolish to ever let someone search your car or home without a warrant...period...
...when you asked them in to talk, YOU still controlled the home...you should have told them to leave your weapon alone and when they continued...demanded that they leave...better to have talked to them outside...if they truly had "reports of drug activity", that's NOT the way they would have come....
...from police experience, I gotta ask your race...this whole thing is not standard police procedure and I wonder if they were not trying to get away with something...
...nobody loves the cop on the street more than I do...but they are NOT our friend this day and age...and should not be given liberties you would not give any but your closest friend....
...on the street...a personal search is very hard to deny...reasonable suspicion is easy to "manufacture..." but a search of your car or home...no way...I've known a lotta good cops.........and I've known a lotta bad ones....

...p.s....if you won't take advice from lawyers before and now...wanting to be a "good guy"...it's only a matter of time before you'll be PAYING a lawyer for advice..and we're on your side telling you all of these things...please be wise enough to listen....
 
I don't own any EBRs or anything remotely resembling a prohibited device.
That's really not for you to determine after you hand them the access to make their own judgments. They could very easily see things differently than you'd ever imagine.

They're not out to get me.
Actually, per your original story, they were in fact out, in your neighborhood, to get you. It just happened that they couldn't find anything suspicious enough to 'get you' on.

It's not tin foil, it's common sense. Their job is to apprehend criminals, they pegged you as one, and tried to put you in cuffs. You got out of it lucky though. Good for you.
 
...just noticed you were posting from La...and again I say from an old ex-cop's experience (an old LOUISIANA ex-cop)they ain't as friendly about guns as you think....so watch your p's and q's and know that their CCW laws are quite a lot different from ours...though they recognize Texas' permit...we have to carry with it under THEIR rules....I guess you just ain't gonna get any good news today!!! Live and LEARN....
 
Once you voluntarily allow the police into your home(for any reason)you have given up your rights and they can now search your house at will.

verily no
 
what? no kittens stomped? cops now know whoever tipped em is bogus? one guy who really was there and owned the house feels ok with it? not a bad day in the real world even if the internet has knotted knickers.
 
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