Just put a Remington R1 Stainless 1911 on layaway with buds
- Thread starter TennJed
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Skylerbone said:
The Ruger SR1911 also has a significant bevel at the top of the VIS so you'll have to include the Ruger when speculating about barrel life. I looked at two stainless R1s today and the bevel is certainly no greater than the one shown on the Ruger in the link I provided.
Skylerbone
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If by speculating you mean I cannot say with absolute certainty that the barrel will not meet with premature failure by other means; say a stringer caused by too high a sulphur content causing the barrel to split like a hot dog in a microwave then yes, I am speculating. If by speculating you mean I'm taking a wild guess that lowering the contact area of the VIS will lead to premature lug failure all else being equal then no, I am not speculating.
As the contact area is moved toward the tips of the lower lugs it is a matter of certainty that leverage increases in a negative way and that the lugs themselves by virtue of shape and design are weakest at the tips. That is the sole purpose of milling the bowtie and insuring high contact. As for the Ruger, it does not appear from the photos linked to include nearly so severe a cutaway as the Remington.
A few pictures of a Colt for illustration:
The VIS, bowtie visible
The transitional bevel between VIS and frame bridge
As the contact area is moved toward the tips of the lower lugs it is a matter of certainty that leverage increases in a negative way and that the lugs themselves by virtue of shape and design are weakest at the tips. That is the sole purpose of milling the bowtie and insuring high contact. As for the Ruger, it does not appear from the photos linked to include nearly so severe a cutaway as the Remington.
A few pictures of a Colt for illustration:
The VIS, bowtie visible
The transitional bevel between VIS and frame bridge
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The bevel looks very similar on the Ruger and Remington but the angle of the bevel on the R1 appears to be larger. However, if you look at the area on the VIS that makes direct contact with the lower barrel lugs it looks like the Remington has the larger contact area. Regardless, you'll have a tough time convincing anyone that the reduction in contact area between the VIS and the lower barrel lugs (on either 1911) will significantly reduce barrel life. Without calculations or empirical evidence you are merely speculating. You talk of "the contact area moving towards the tips of the lower lugs" as if there's a significant shift of the centroid of the contact area but that's a misrepresentation of what's actually going on.
Image of Ruger SR1911 courtesy of ken mayes (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=317162)
Image of Remington R1 courtesy of TennJed
Image of Ruger SR1911 courtesy of ken mayes (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=317162)
Image of Remington R1 courtesy of TennJed
Skylerbone
Member
Funny you should mention Ken Mayes and his Ruger, here's the first R1 internal shots I viewed which had me looking for more and taking an upclose look in person. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=354434. Several world class 1911 smiths were among the respondents.
I'm not in the business of convincing folks of anything, there's nothing that can't be disagreed on. Back to that Ruger, if it were as bad as the R1 I would think Ken would have mentioned it, it does indeed appear over-cut in depth though without a shot of the barrel bed it's hard to say how bad it is.
My original point in asking was to discern whether or not the R1 had changed. That bevel serves no purpose save providing an area for flanged material to displace into while allowing the gun to run. Removing half the contact patch on the VIS means the remaining area must still endure the full crash of the lugs. The lower that contact occurs the higher the stress on the lugs.
I'm not in the business of convincing folks of anything, there's nothing that can't be disagreed on. Back to that Ruger, if it were as bad as the R1 I would think Ken would have mentioned it, it does indeed appear over-cut in depth though without a shot of the barrel bed it's hard to say how bad it is.
My original point in asking was to discern whether or not the R1 had changed. That bevel serves no purpose save providing an area for flanged material to displace into while allowing the gun to run. Removing half the contact patch on the VIS means the remaining area must still endure the full crash of the lugs. The lower that contact occurs the higher the stress on the lugs.
The discussion in the link you provided pertains to the R1 shown in that link (and included below for convenience) which looks nothing like TennJed's R1 or the two new R1s I looked at yesterday. Given that ken mayes made no mention of the bevelled cut at the top of the VIS in his Ruger SR1911, which looks very much like the bevel on the R1, I would guess that he wasn't concerned about it.
Image of Remington R1 courtesy of ken mayes (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=354434)
Image of Remington R1 courtesy of TennJed
Image of Remington R1 courtesy of ken mayes (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=354434)
Image of Remington R1 courtesy of TennJed
Skylerbone
Member
It appears the the cut has changed but the amount of material removed from the VIS is still excessive. It appears Remington was speculating it would be problematic as well...whether Ken is concerned over the Ruger and its also being over-cut has little to do with whether it is correct or not.
I will concede (all else being equal) that a new R1 will see improved barrel life vs. any that received the "Ken Mayes Cut" but, all else being equal, both will still offer shorter barrel life than those using a correctly cut VIS. It's not opinion, it's physics.
I will concede (all else being equal) that a new R1 will see improved barrel life vs. any that received the "Ken Mayes Cut" but, all else being equal, both will still offer shorter barrel life than those using a correctly cut VIS. It's not opinion, it's physics.
Skylerbone
Member
Hard to put a number on it as there are of course other factors. No one can guarantee you 100 rounds or 100,000. Don't loose sleep over it, just keep an eye out and inspect the barrel for signs of issues from time to time. If you had the older version I would have advised a trade.
I'm not looking to be an alarmist, my question was solely based on my interest in the R1 as they are constantly available locally and I wouldn't mind picking one up at the price but having seen only examples of mis-cut ones has me holding my breath and money.
I'm not looking to be an alarmist, my question was solely based on my interest in the R1 as they are constantly available locally and I wouldn't mind picking one up at the price but having seen only examples of mis-cut ones has me holding my breath and money.
TennJed said:
Here's a side-by-side comparision of a new R1 stainless with an SR1911 from Ruger. As you can see, they look very similar. I took photos of five R1s today and they all look like the one shown. I also took a photo of an R1 that is about 2 years old next to one of the new models and you can see that the bevel is significantly larger on the older model so Remington has obviously made a design change.
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gunnutter
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Man that is a sweet looking pistol. Congrat's!
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