Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

[JohnBT]

Uh-oh. How many more countries are involved. A good(?) idea spreads quickly in government as the managers claw their way to the top.

Will the U.S. allow them to be tried overseas for their part in the scheme?

Well anyway, here's the link to today's Washington Post article on Melson's testimony.

www.washingtonpost.com/investigatio...un-operation/2011/07/06/gIQAhy3d0H_story.html

 

[publius]

I see the Washington Post still cannot bring themselves to print the truth of what happened here...

Fast and Furious allowed the suspected illegal purchase of hundreds of semiautomatic firearms in Arizona gun shops so ATF agents could watch where the guns ended up, with the hope of bringing down a Mexican cartel.

The bolded part is absolutely false, and is actually the anti-truth. The agents "could" watch where the guns ended up HAD THEIR SUPERIORS NOT ORDERED THEM NOT TO DO THAT!

In fairness, finally printing the fact that the ATF "allowed the suspected illegal purchase of hundreds of semiautomatic firearms" is a huge step forward for the Washington Post, since that little fact has not yet appeared in their paper. But that glimmer of a hope that they are recovering from denial was quickly dashed by the lie that followed.

 

[publius]

43 walked guns found in Phoenix traffic stop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mSyBqBLX0I

 

[Sniper X]

Ruby Ridge, and Waco, now this, the good ol ATF has a bretty bad rep, but they'll never suffer for it. Neither will the man who OK'd this debacle, Barry O.

 

[publius]

Project Gunrunner got its own ten million dollar earmark in the stimulus bill

The New York Times with the usual penetrating and detailed coverage.

The lawmakers have been investigating an A.T.F. program called Operation Fast and Furious in which federal agents knowingly let weapons slip across the Mexican border in the hope of tracing them to drug cartels. Two of the guns later turned up in Arizona, where an American Border Patrol agent was killed in a shootout.

Agents say they actually had no hope of tracing the guns to cartels, and complained about that fact to supervisors repeatedly. Had they managed to somehow trace the guns to the purchaser, it turns out they would have found an FBI informant paying with tax money in at least one case.

 

[Millwright]

Make no mistake. Project "Fast and Furious" aka "Gunrunner" was never, ever about hitting the cartels. It was solely conceived to create a "gun crisis" enabling further restrictions on gun ownership/purchase across the nation ! >MW

 

[One-Time]

+1 Im amazed so many dont see it for what it was, it was about forcing foreign pressure and even local pressure in order to bring about sweeping gun laws PERIOD

 

[publius]

The panic has spread to Tampa, according to the "Woodward and Bernstein" of this scandal...

They have an update on the ATF gunwalking to Honduras

At one point the case was ready to be wrapped up with arrests and remain relatively efficient but O'Brien and McCampbell decided on their own to keep it going to "get more" against the advise of thier field employees and the walked guns numbers got out of control.

OB is terrified that her intentional concealing of her walked guns is going to do her in since she disregarded orders to report to DOJ and Congress.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Breaking News: Tampa SAC 'in full meltdown...shredders are buzzing' - National gun rights | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...-meltdown-shredders-are-buzzing#ixzz1RWN4ZVBf

 

[atblis]

Make no mistake. Project "Fast and Furious" aka "Gunrunner" was never, ever about hitting the cartels. It was solely conceived to create a "gun crisis" enabling further restrictions on gun ownership/purchase across the nation ! >MW

Close. I suspect it had more to do with job security. Create a "problem", get more funding, keep your fat government paycheck.

Government is farcical. The more you f'up, the more money you get.

 

[Bubbles]

Fast and Furious allowed the suspected illegal purchase of hundreds of semiautomatic firearms in Arizona gun shops so ATF agents could watch where the guns ended up, with the hope of bringing down a Mexican cartel.

The bolded part is absolutely false, and is actually the anti-truth. The agents "could" watch where the guns ended up HAD THEIR SUPERIORS NOT ORDERED THEM NOT TO DO THAT!

It's also false because the ATF/DoJ never told Mexico that the guns were being smuggled across the border. Once those guns left the US the ATF lacked the authority and the ability to track them.

 

[Sky]

H.R. 1-16 Titled "Office of Justice Programs", under the page of "State and local Laws and enforcement assistance", says on the "allocation of funds page" that $10,000,000 would be allocated for Project Gunrunner. Rather dry reading bill which was signed into law in 2009 by our sitting President. All of this stuff is easy to find if one seeks the info with the exception of black projects; there is always a paper trail and even a list of co-sponsors.

http://demo.tizra.com/dltaj/16?highlightText=gunrunner&;;;


For an additional amount for ‘State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance’, $40,000,000, for competitive grants to provide assistance and equipment to local law enforcement along the Southern border and in High-Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas to combat criminal narcotics activity stemming from the Southern border, of which $10,000,000 shall be transferred to ‘Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Salaries and Expenses’ for the ATF Project Gunrunner.

Well that answered a few questions. Second thought maybe it is a different program with the same name?

 

[LongTimeGone]

Here is some of that "under the radar" stuff.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...o_implement_more_gun_control_without_congress

 

[Sky]

Hard for many Americans to "become involved" because they are so busy trying to make a living that almost all other activities (other than family) gets excluded. Also a type of apathy exist for many feel they are but one voice with no channel for change or the collective reasoning.

 

[publius]

The hearings on government criminality and irresponsibility are just a distraction from real problems, according to noted journalist Juan Williams.

The idea was that ATF would be able to trace the firearms back to their original buyers, enabling them to arrest and prosecute members of the drug cartels. The operation spun wildly out of control and less than half of the firearms have been accounted for.

The idea that the ability to identify a straw buyer back in America would lead to a kingpin in Mexico is so incredibly stupid that I cannot believe people are taking it seriously.

The operation never "spun wildly out of control" that I can tell. Right up until Agent Terry was killed, whistleblowers report that their supervisors were "giddy" when a walked gun would turn up at a Mexican crime scene because that meant the strategy was "working."

If it ever "spun out of control" it was after Agent Terry was killed and the coverup began. The operation was proceeding according to plan up until then, which is really the problem here. The plan itself was "felony stupid" to quote Rep. Issa, but sticking to a really stupid plan is not spinning out of control. It's proceeding according to a plan.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

if this had happened on a republican's watch, the liberal media would be on them like stink on a monkey. not Obozo though, he's their darling.....

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The idea that the ability to identify a straw buyer back in America would lead to a kingpin in Mexico is so incredibly stupid that I cannot believe people are taking it seriously.

The operation never "spun wildly out of control" that I can tell. Right up until Agent Terry was killed, whistleblowers report that their supervisors were "giddy" when a walked gun would turn up at a Mexican crime scene because that meant the strategy was "working."

If it ever "spun out of control" it was after Agent Terry was killed and the coverup began. The operation was proceeding according to plan up until then, which is really the problem here. The plan itself was "felony stupid" to quote Rep. Issa, but sticking to a really stupid plan is not spinning out of control. It's proceeding according to a plan.

They never intended to find a king pin -- the man they were stalking was an FBI informer and not eligible for arrest.

Their intention was to create a horror story about all those American guns getting to Mexico and use that to justify more gun control.

 

[azmjs]

What this actually was, as opposed to the "really" that conspiracy theorists like to use to preface their paranoid fantasies, was a poorly conceived program that failed to do what it was meant to.

 

[Unistat]

What this actually was, as opposed to the "really" that conspiracy theorists like to use to preface their paranoid fantasies, was a poorly conceived program that failed to do what it was meant to.

I agree.

"Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence."

 

[HorseSoldier]

Very true.

 

[publius]

I just want to know who authorized it. It was so poorly conceived that the conspiracy theories make more sense than the program, so I think that whoever looked at this idea and thought it a good one needs to leave government service forever.

 

[Unistat]

I just want to know who authorized it. It was so poorly conceived that the conspiracy theories make more sense than the program, so I think that whoever looked at this idea and thought it a good one needs to leave government service forever.

I don't think there is a single person who would disagree with you. That demonstration of judgement was so abyssmally awful that I would have a problem if the person responsible was in charge of even a fry-machine at McDonald's!

 

[Mike1234567]

The gun control folks used this to "justify" more control measures in "border states". Anyone who buys more than 2 semi-auto firearms within a 5 day period in a border state is to be reported by name to the ATF.

 

[jerkface11]

What this actually was, as opposed to the "really" that conspiracy theorists like to use to preface their paranoid fantasies, was a poorly conceived program that failed to do what it was meant to.

Yes because the ATF doesn't have a history of being dirty.....

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
What this actually was, as opposed to the "really" that conspiracy theorists like to use to preface their paranoid fantasies, was a poorly conceived program that failed to do what it was meant to.

Yes because the ATF doesn't have a history of being dirty.....

You're being sarcastic, right?

 

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>What this actually was, as opposed to the "really" that conspiracy theorists like to use to preface their paranoid fantasies, was a poorly conceived program that failed to do what it was meant to. <

It was framed in fail from its conception. Once the guns went to Mexico, the ATF couldn't "watch" to see where they ended up and they couldn't trace them to anywhere in Mexico. Their jurisdiction ends at the border. All they could do from that point was wait until the Mexican authorities had them and reported the serial numbers. By that time, it was highly likely that they'd been used in crimes, up to and including murder.

Only an idiot would believe that such a plan could have even a slight chance of success. They planned it beautifully. The murdered Border patrol agent was the monkey wrench in the machinery.

No. I think that it was meant to do exactly what the "conspiracy theorists" believe. That it was intended to offer "proof" that shady American gun dealers are responsible for the drug-related violence in Mexico.