Kahr PM9 is NOT idiot proof

[made2cut]

Well last night I proved that the PM9 is not idiot proof. I was reassembling the gun after cleaning it while listening to my brother gab on the phone and watching some T.V. so I wasn't paying as much attention to the process as I normally do. Somehow I managed to insert the slide catch into the gun in front of the barrel instead of through the machined slot. Once the pin was inserted there was no way that I could get it back apart as the slide was locked into a rearward position. :banghead: I spent a couple of hours looking at the situation prodding, probing & racking to no avail. I eventually boxed the gun up getting it ready to ship out to Kahr today to see what they could do and went to bed. After tossing and turning for about 45 minutes thinking about the problem I decided the only way to fix it was to somehow cut the slide catch in half which would allow me to push the pin out. I knew I wasn't going to be able to sleep thinking about this so I got out of bed at Midnight, went down stairs, fired up the Dremel and proceeded to cut through the lever with a cutoff wheel. I was very carefull to mask up the gun with tape and stopped cutting leaving just a thin layer of metal. This allowed me to tap out the pin, easily breaking the lever in half allowing the slide to move forward so I could remove the rest of the lever. This morning I ordered a new slide catch from Kahr.

Has anyone else done this or am I the only knucklehead unlucky enough to manage this feat. It seems to me that this is a design flaw and at the very least should be noted in the manual in BIG red letters. I looked last night and the only thing they say is to move the slide slowly and insert the pin as soon as the barrel relief lines up with the hole. Nothing is mentioned that if you move it too far you will be totally screwed!

Okay, rant off.... I'm just happy to have solved the problem myself. Looks like I'll be carrying my P229tt more often until I get my slide catch in the mail.

Kurt

 

[Father Knows Best]

As the saying goes, it is impossible to make anything idiot-proof, because idiots are so d@mn clever.

Don't feel bad. I've never done that particular thing, 'cause I don't own a PM9. Anyone who owns firearms long enough, however, and dares to take them apart, will eventually get into a situation where they need help getting it back together. Many gunsmiths could make a nice living just fixing "box guns", i.e., guns that arrive as a box full of parts.

 

[Jim Watson]

I would say that the problem is "multitasking" with a tv, telephone, and firearm all at once. When I am messing with a gun, it gets ALL my attention.

 

[made2cut]

Well you can bet I'll be a lot more carefull in the future. I have taken this gun down and reassembled it numerous times without incident in the past so I guess I was just getting complacent Like you say, multitasking when dealing with a firearm is a bad idea.

 

[ABBOBERG]

I didn't have your exact problem, but my slide was "floating" in a slightly rearward position - it wouldn't stay all the way forward, nor would it go far enough back to align the takedown pin for disassembly. I tried for a long time to get the gun apart, but could not. I sent the gun back to Kahr and they somehow fixed it, saying that the recoil spring had been put in backwards (?????). I don't know how I could have done this because I believe that their two-stage spring assembly will only go in one way, and that the individual springs seem symmetrical end-to-end.

 

[Sistema1927]

I tear down my PM9 every week for re-lube, and I will take care not to replicate this problem.

"Make something idiot proof, and someone will invent a better idiot."

 

[wingman]

I tear down my PM9 every week for re-lube, and I will take care not to replicate this problem.

Curious, how many rounds do you fire before break down for cleaning, I know
many will disagree but I find most people over clean/lube.
I use an aircompressor blow out dirt, powder, etc and lube with FP10,
I will do a complete cleaning after 800 rounds+, my guns stay clean
and new looking.

 

[atblis]

Most people do overclean

I'd almost be willing to say, they do more damage during disassembly/cleaning than actually shooting the thing.

The Dr200 is working on 2000 rounds without a malfunction (starting to feel guilty so I may clean it)

The SKS chokes up after about 1000 rounds of the WOlf carap.

Service pistols go about 500-1000 rounds before I get around to cleaning them.

22 bolt rifles get cleaned once a year.

 

[GunGoBoom]

Glad the home-MacGyver-gunsmith-remedy worked out for ya - been there, done that; always also managed to get frozen up, improperly re-assembled pistols unstuck myself eventually. Yeah, I agree the manual ought to have a big warning: "Attention Knuckleheads: Don't Do This:" followed by a picture.

 

[BryanP]

We've all done stuff in this vein. I was reassembling my Marlin 1894C and slipped. The bolt closed all the way home without the lever in place. It took me about 20 minutes of fiddling to get the bolt to release. I had visions of taking it to the local gun shop with a sheepish look on my face.

For similar stories I recommend an earlier thread: Great Moments in Gun Cleaning.

 

[Sistema1927]

I will do a complete cleaning after 800 rounds+, my guns stay clean

The PM9 resides in my pocket daily. It might get a Friday or Saturday outing at the range between re-lubes, but most weeks it doesn't. (I shoot most every week, but most of the time the Kahr stays in the pocket while I fire other weapons.)

It is amazing how much lint and crud you can remove from the innards of a pistol that is carried daily in a pocket holster. Especially in the land of blowing dust and high temperatures. I am not concerned with keeping it clean, or keeping it new looking, but rather in keeping it functioning. The little Kahrs like to be a little "wet" in the lube department, and the weekly strip, wipe, and re-lube keeps it running just the way it is supposed to.

I trust my life to my PM9, and my weekly routine keeps it running. I must be doing something right, I haven't had a malf since the first 50 rounds when I was breaking it in.

 

[made2cut]

I like to keep mine wet and clean too. I'm a little on the anal side when it comes to keeping my guns clean which contributed to this problem. I bought some new Remington UMC JHP that I wanted to run a couple of mags through on the PM9 just to make sure it liked them. I wasn't even going to clean it but figured I'd just run a brush through the barrel a couple of times - what harm could that do

 

[PowderBurn]

The little Kahrs like to be a little "wet" in the lube department, and the weekly strip, wipe, and re-lube keeps it running just the way it is supposed to.

I'm new to the PM9 Brotherhood; bought one about 6 weeks ago. Prior to buying, I'd heard that they liked to stay clean. Is that anecdotal, or is it an official Kahr recommendation?

Honestly, though, anything I carry will be cleaned shortly after firing. I've heard of guns that don't need to be kept clean, but I've never heard of one that is more reliable dirty. If you're concerned enough about your well-being to carry a firearm, you're probably concerned enough to carry a clean one.

 

[wingman]

I trust my life to my PM9, and my weekly routine keeps it running. I must be doing something right, I haven't had a malf since the first 50 rounds when I was breaking it in.

Not to say you were doing anything wrong but in my opinion no need to field
strip if carrying in pocket for a week, if you dont have an air compressor
use the canned air for computers and try the FP10 you will find it stays
on and doesnt get dirty like other products, I have an MK9, hundreds of
rounds no ftf's.

 

[flaboy83]

wow i just did the same thing i sent you a pm for help thanks

 

[DZL HOG]

I thought it was in the manual so I looked it up. Page 18, in red writing. "Make sure the slide stop does not miss the kidney shaped cutout as this will result in the gun being returned to the factory for service."

I guess they were trying to be nice by not using extra descriptive words like "idiot"?? lol

Crap happens even to the most competent ppl, glad you were able to resolve the prob at the cost of a simple slide release.

I carry mine most of the time in a Don Hume IWB holster. It still gets a nice coating of lint and leather chunks(cheap holster). I usually unload, wipe it down and relube the rails and barrel every week or two.(whether its fired or not) Rack and dry fire it a few times, load it back up, and ready to go.

 

[esq_stu]

Has anyone else done this or am I the only knucklehead unlucky enough to manage this feat.

Yes it happened to be and I was able to undo it without cutting anything - there's another thread on it here where I described it.

You need to pry on the lever from above while pulling back on the slide. Takes some coordination but doable. Put tape on the slide and on the screwdriver shaft so as not to scratch the slide.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I think I did it yesterday, but I yanked it out. I'm not sure if I did the same thing that you did.

 

[jocko]

yup

I have had my PM9 apart probably a 100 times and trust me that is the ONE thing that I watch out for is to make sure the take down pin is inserted correctly. I have read other stories about this happening and the gun having to go back. . Not the guns fault either but accidents do happen and your solution was indeed probably one that should be kept in mind.

I sometimes wonder how kahr gets it out. My bet is that they use a drive punch and just drive it back out.

Glad you got it right.
Best damn gun I ever owned, can't say enough good things about the entire kahr line. I sometimes wonder if there is some kind of conspiroucy out there against kahrs, as 98% of the stuff you read are all very positive and then a few pop up with total negatives.

I guess that is why you guys see my positive posts all the time on the kahrs to try to offset some of the negatives that sometimes even lead me to wonder if that person hammering the kahrs actually owned one.

I won't agree that kahrs need to be WET. lubed yes but wet no. A good gun grease i have found is far better than dripping oil on the slides and that is all that is needed. To me one of the easiest guns to keep clean. I keep my PM9 cleaned and lubed as it is my 24/7 carry peace but I have many times fired 500 rounds through it without any issue and never touched it. My k9 kahr is my range/fun gun and at best it is cleaned every 1000 rounds. Goes bang every time . Probably the truth be know we tend to over clean these guns. they are not time peaces and the simplicity of the kahrs IMO tends to make them very clean running. I haven't really read anything negative about kahrs running dirty and needing cleaned often either.

smoke um if you got um!!

having sold guns for a living for 40 years I also know for a fact that all guns can give issues, Kahrs are not exempt from that either but they are a good company and customer service from what I have read is excellent. I guess my POS PM9 with 17,100 flawless rounds through it is a rarity to the kahr bashers but to the kahr owners, they know these guns can do it, with ease..

I always thought the Glock trigger system was simple, People should look inside of a kahr and the will realize that kahrs trigger system puts glocks to shame. They may be a looong trigger pull (1/2") but they are one of the smoothest on the market.

 

[jlh26oo]

I remember something like that from the manual that made me scareful when reassembling. Firearms generally command 100% of my attention anyways when my hands are on them, but I'm glad I didn't find that particular pitfall before I sold my P.M. 9. I can't imagine how something like that could screw it up to the extent that you have to send it back to the factory. Thanks for the warning O.P.

I sometimes wonder if there is some kind of conspiroucy out there against kahrs, as 98% of the stuff you read are all very positive and then a few pop up with total negatives.

If it's a conspiracy against Kahr that 98% of what you read is all very positive, these are some lazy conspirators.

 

[jocko]

jhl2600

yup, didn't word that quite right now did I, Sorry about that but I think you got my point. Anyway, long live the kahr line of ccw guns..