Retarded new Kahr PM9 with backward safety?!?

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scotthsi

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No thanks. I'll keep my NON-Massivetwosh^ts compliant PM9 without a manual safety and loaded chamber indicator. So ridiculous considering Kahr is still IN MA. They need to move!

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Kahr PM9193
NEW MODEL | 9 mm | Shipping Fall 2009!!

Kahr Arms is selling the PM9 model in Massachusetts. This pistol is on the Commonwealth of Massachusetts EOPS Approved Firearms Roster and now incorporates all MA compliant features. The Consumer Protection Division of the Office of the Attorney General has reviewed the pistol and, as presented to them, “has no reason to believe that this Office would have any specific concern that sales of this firearm would violate the Attorney General’s regulations.”

MA Compliant PM9 Features

Second Serial Number
This model has an additional serial number to the primary serial number which is molded on the outside of the dust cover area. The second serial number is engraved on a ¼” pin surface and embedded inside the dust cover. The approximate size of the lettering is .020 and is engraved on the surface of the pin. Viewing of the number is attainable with10X magnification

Loaded Chamber Indicator
This model is designed to provide physical indication if there is a bullet loaded in the chamber. The product is designed with a lever mounted on the top of slide. The lever is marked as Indicator in red lettering. When a bullet is chambered it pushes the lever upward and out of position. The operator will visually see the lever as it is raised up. Also the operator will be able to feel the indicator as being out of its normal resting position as it will not be flush with the top of the slide, thus warning the operator that the firearm is loaded.

External Safety
This model has, in addition to the internal safety, an external safety that will prevent the firearm from firing when the safety is in safe position. The product has an external lever with two settings. When the lever is pushed up the red dot is visible; the firearm is in the armed position and ready to fire with the pull of the trigger. When the lever is pushed down, the red dot is hidden and the firearm is in safe position and will not function with the pull of the trigger. The safety works in the following sequence. When the lever is in down (Safe) position the connecting cam on the lever pushes the trigger bar out of position thus disconnecting it from the cocking cam. Thus, even when the trigger is pulled, there is no contact between the trigger bar and the cocking cam and thus there is no fire. When the lever is pushed up (fire/armed position) the cam moves out of place and the trigger bar moves up, again connecting with the cocking cam and ready to fire with the pull of the trigger.

PM9193 (3" Barrel) → More Information
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide with external safety and loaded chamber indicator (LCI)
MSRP: $924.00
Shipping Fall 2009!!

PM9193N (3" Barrel)
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide with Tritium night sights with external safety and loaded chamber indicator (LCI)
MSRP: $1,049.00
Shipping Fall 2009!!
 
While you may think the PM9 with it's "backwards" safety is "retarded", I think it's pretty clever. Until now, Kahr pistols couldn't be purchased by residents of Massachusetts, who I suspect, will consider this as genius.

Massachusetts isn't the only state that requires certain unnecessary safety devices or tests in order to sell a particular firearm. Anything to thumb your nose to the anti's has to be good.

To me it's no different than auto manufacturers making California compliant vehicles.






.
 
As long as they still offer the non-safety models. I'm still planning to replace the PM9 I had to sell a few years ago.
 
Fine, add the safety, but the way it operates IS stupid. UP to fire and down is safe on a frame mounted safety? With that tiny safety lever? Look at the serrations. They are on the wrong side as they should aid in taking the safety OFF and not the other way around like the 1911 design. If it were a "push down" to fire safety, then okay...maybe... The long trigger pull on a Kahr is the "safety" and it operates just like a revolver, as it should. Yes, I understand them adding the BS to make it MA compliant, but that will make ALL Kahr pistols more expensive overall. They now will be making a different pistol with more parts and extra machining, which will increase manufacturing costs and WILL be applied across the line. They need to move out of MA and just forget that market. Seriously, compared to everything else, how big can the Kahr market in MA, one of the most UNfriendly gun states in the nation? Other gun manufacturers, both large AND small, are doing just fine without the imposed BS from states like MA and CA. Glock and Kel-Tec, for starters...

Instead of "bending" to meet oppressive state requirements, they ALL should stop selling anything in those states. Just like what Barrett did in California. If the residents don't like it and want something they can't get? MOVE... In states like that, there are PLENTY of reasons other than oppressive gun laws/requirements to get the hell out. And, living "this far" away from MA in CT...I see it all the time. Can't wait to get out of CT, either, and it will be soon, but at least the gun laws are "decent", especially for liberal la la land New England. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
gbellah said:
As long as they still offer the non-safety models. I'm still planning to replace the PM9 I had to sell a few years ago.

And, now it will cost even MORE because of the new "compliant" pistols, which require more machining and are more complex (new design changes, more parts, etc)... See post above...

Honestly, I really don't think I'd mind the safety all that much if they flipped it around to operate like a 1911...DOWN to fire. The loaded chamber indicator? Not so much...
 
Several firearms have the "backwards" safety. The one which comes to mind is my Bersa 380. If you carry one gun, it's fine. If you don't like the safety,
leave it in the hot position. Or don't buy the gun. I have 2 small 9mm's with a safety and I'm glad it's there. Some of these guns are really easy to shoot. That's good, and it's bad. I feel more comfortable in public with my safety on (if i have one). I've practiced so much getting to my pistol without touching the trigger i no fear of shooting myself or someone else. But in
a real emergency, you WANT the gun to fire. As long as you don't hit yourself in an artery - you can still shoot the bad guy and live.

I like safeties and locks on guns. I NEVER use the built-in locks. But if I had children i'd use them on all guns but the one i've chosen for protection of the home.
 
m2steven said:
Several firearms have the "backwards" safety. The one which comes to mind is my Bersa 380.

That's why I said FRAME MOUNTED safety and NOT slide mounted safety, like your Bersa or my Walther PPK/s (same safety design). Other than this new Kahr, I can't think of a single gun with a frame mounted "up and down" safety that works like this. Not saying they're not out there...just never seen or heard of one myself.
 
Birdmang said:
Are PM9s really nice, that price seems steep?

Yes, they are nice and are an EXCELLENT small carry 9mm, but those prices are way out of whack. Those are the suggested retail prices. Street price won't be anywhere near that. I bought my PM9 in 2006 at a gun show with a 100 round 9mm Winchester value pack box thrown in for $525 out the door.

The potential problem is Kahr might very well just decide it's easier and/or more economically feasible to transition their ENTIRE pistol line-up to include these features instead of making two variants. If the PM9 does well in MA, then why not add this garbage to all the other Kahrs? Then drop the "old" design? Didn't Ruger do the same thing? Make pistols to sell in all 50 states? Can you even get a Mk .22lr pistol (brand new) without a loaded chamber indicator or a magazine disconnect? They all already had the manual safety. What about the SR9...do they make it without those "features". NO! :mad:
 
outerlimit said:
The MA Attorney General probably got a hardon from making Kahr have to do this for MA pistols.

He didn't MAKE Kahr do anything. Kahr is located in MA and just never was allowed to sell their own damned pistols in MA. It was their CHOICE to alter the design when they, and they alone, decided to tap into the MA market.
 
And, now it will cost even MORE because of the new "compliant" pistols, which require more machining and are more complex (new design changes, more parts, etc)... See post above...

Honestly, I really don't think I'd mind the safety all that much if they flipped it around to operate like a 1911...DOWN to fire. The loaded chamber indicator? Not so much...
get a raise, and stop griping. ;)

I'm sure it's easier for you to get money than for somebody to just move out of CA.
 
Who said anything about locked breech versus blowback design? Just because the Bersa and PPK/s were mentioned with respect to the design of the SAFETY? NOTHING was said about the recoil action or comparing it to the Kahr design. So, :rolleyes: yourself...
 
UnTainted said:
get a raise, and stop griping.

I'm sure it's easier for you to get money than for somebody to just move out of CA.

Don't need one. I've already got mine. Sucks for new buyers down the road, though.

Spent almost 20 years in So Cal and yet, somehow...just somehow, I managed to move. ;)
 
Why not just leave the safety off all the time and treat it like a standard kahr. The kahr safety looks impossible to use without completely changing your grip anyway. I have a ruger p95 that had a decocker and a useless safety that went the wrong way but at least I could use it with out changing my grip much. I have since changed the ruger over to decocker only. Mark
 
Why not just leave the safety off all the time and treat it like a standard kahr.

Because it's no longer a "standard" Kahr and shouldn't be treated as such. That safety could easily get knocked to the on position, especially with pocket carry which a great many people, myself included, do virtually every day. I'd have to train myself to add a "safety off" move, no matter how I carried it or where that safety lever may actually end up.

The kahr safety looks impossible to use without completely changing your grip anyway.

Not really. I'm holding my PM9 right now and if it were a "sweep down to off" type safety, it would be quite easy to use. No different than any of the other micro 1911s out there. But, it's still a solution looking for a problem (other than retarded state regulations). 1911s have a VERY short and light single action trigger pull. The striker fired Kahrs do not and they are designed to have a long, smooth and deliberate trigger pull. No manual safety needed.
 
Kahr's new roll stamp:

2637476467_5185c9831d.jpg


Seriously though, down to fire on frame mounts (1911) and up to fire on slide mounts (ppk). The opposite–such as this kahr–does not favor the average human hand (IMHO).

Pass on this version at first look (again, IMHO).
 
I have to admit the operation is backwards from what I'm used to, mainly a 1911, BUT in this case I think it is the best option.

Flip it up out of the way and ready to fire then forget it is there, more or less. I'm just saying I would carry it on fire, the design would be good for that.
 
Until you really need it in a split second and find the safety has been knocked down into the "safe" position... Especially if it's pocket carried as I, and a lot of other people, do.
 
until we try it, we are just "sumizzing" things to.

kahr has no intentions of making this standard on all their models. so the price increase is for this PM9 only. If you live in Mass. and want a kahr, they have at least done their part.


I being a lefty, don't see this as a gun that I would want,, do to a no ambi safety and I hate that damn cocking lever and hate worse all that G-0 damn printing on the top of the slide. I think Kahrs are very attractive semi's and allthis worthless printing and warning lables is pure bull **** IMO.
 
jocko said:
kahr has no intentions of making this standard on all their models.

And you know this exactly how, jocko? Are you employed by Kahr? I know you from other forums and...no, you are not. You just claim to own a high round count ported and customized PM9, which is fine. But, are you so up to date on Kahr's pricing structure you can claim positively that these features/added costs will not at all creep to their entire product line? I'm not saying it will, but you can NOT say that it won't.

Do not make blanket statements about Kahr's business practices, those of which you do not know any more than the rest of us.

I being a lefty, don't see this as a gun that I would want,, do to a no ambi safety and I hate that damn cocking lever and hate worse all that G-0 damn printing on the top of the slide.

What is this "cocking lever"? Last I checked, it was called the SLIDE. Do you mean the loaded chamber indicator? If so, then that is what it is called.
 
Gee, now I'm not sure whether it's my 1911 or my 1066 that's "retarded" -- er, I mean "differently abled."
 
Because (this has been discussed earlier) your 1066 has a SLIDE MOUNTED safety and operates like a Bersa or PPK/s SLIDE MOUNTED safety. Again, we are talking about a FRAME MOUNTED safety design.

Surely you can compare your 1911 and 1066 side by side to see the difference...
 
AFAIC, the safety is an extra OPTION. It probably moves UP for fire for no other reason than that was the simpler option for the machining/manufacture.

If you really think it's beyond useless, you can either remove it or just pin it, permanently. The loaded chamber indicator, OTOH, :barf::barf::barf:
 
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