Retarded new Kahr PM9 with backward safety?!?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by scotthsi, Sep 4, 2009.

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  1. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    Maybe pin it, but removing it? That could be a lot harder. Read the safety design. It actually disconnects the trigger bar. It's not as simple as adding a series 70 firing pin to a 1911 with a Schwartz safety firing pin block in the slide. ;)

    And, GLOOB, your "machining/manufacture" comment was genius! Upon thinking about it, you're probably very right. "Down" brings the trigger bar down inside the right side of the frame. It can't physically go "up" because it's already at the top of the frame and that would drive it into the underside of the slide. By flipping the safety to "up", it probably lifts the lowered trigger bar in the frame to be in line with the cocking cam allowing it to fire. From reading what Kahr said about the design, I'll bet that's how it works.

    I'd have to see an exploded diagram to be sure, but that does somewhat make sense (to me) about why they make have made the safety that way. Still don't like it, though. :barf:
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  2. jocko

    jocko Member

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    Then indeed by the regular PM9. I don't need such a visible loaded round indicator, let alone that safety. There was a reason it was made and I think kahr stated so. One reason it is so popular with LEO people is simplicity in design and no external safety other than the looooong but smooth trigger. Seemed to have served kahr well so far..
     
  3. 1911 Operator

    1911 Operator member

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    states with stupidass gun laws never cease to amaze me :scrutiny:
     
  4. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    Jocko, they made these changes to be compliant with Massachusetts requirements so it could be sold there. Never mind that fact that Kahr is IN Worcester, MA. Other states have requirements for manual safeties, loaded chamber indicators, magazine disconnect safeties, etc. :rolleyes:
     
  5. kdstrick

    kdstrick Member

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    That is aweful. I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth...:barf:

    Anyone who wants a Kahr better buy one before the screw em up. :)
     
  6. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    Exactly, kdstrick! Even though I love my P9 and PM9, I've always wanted an all metal Kahr "just because". Hopefully, this "sickness" will stay in MA. :rolleyes:
     
  7. DougDubya

    DougDubya Member

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    So you know the amount of pressure necessary to move the safety lever already?
     
  8. dev_null

    dev_null Member

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    Yes, but when I need the gun to fire *right now* I don't give a hoot which it is, I just want to be able to flick the safety off. All this other stuff about whether the Kahr is "retarded" for making their product available in a given jurisdiction just seems like a tempest in a teapot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  9. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    Nope...do you? But one can surmise and extrapolate from other experiences, dude... I've had 1911 safeties get flicked off with IWB carry. I've had magazine release buttons inadvertently pressed with pocket carry.

    Is it really beyond the possible realm of your comprehension that a manual safety could also not be accidentally switched to SAFE...ever?
     
  10. DougDubya

    DougDubya Member

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    Wow. Thank you Scott for overreacting and evaluating the breadth of my comprehension. I'll remember to avoid discussions with you in the future.
     
  11. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    No problemo. See ya!
     
  12. John Parker

    John Parker Member

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    Since it's still got the heavy trigger, just leave the safety off.
     
  13. savit260

    savit260 Member

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    I highly doubt it, as the Ma. A.G. is a woman. ;)

    She's just thrown her hat into the race for Teddy's Senate seat as well. Uggg.

    Although I VERY MUCH disaprove of the backwards saftey, and other garbage on this pistol, it will be the only pocketable 9mm for sale in the Ma. market if it actually makes it through the approval process.

    There are VERY FEW pocketable pistols in ANY calibre available to us her in the Kommonwealth.
    I can't even think of one off the top of my head.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  14. jocko

    jocko Member

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    scotts,u just want to argue. Kahr told me that they have no intentions of making all their guns with the safety features that are required on the Mass model. Yes I do know quite about about kahrs, I have studied them, talked to people inside who know far more than u or I and I also listen to them.
    Unless u live in Mass and want one, there is no reason to even be looking at it for a purchase. Unless laws change nation wide and it forces kahr to change over completly, they will not be doing it, YMMV

    I have also read in other fourms that "some" people would like to have an external safety on their kahr, for reasons of their own.

    sorry u get so testy when people give their comments and they do't agree with yours..... seems like most here got you pegged pretty fast also..

    kahrs are compliant in california which IMO has some of the strictest requirements on guns (other than Mass). What other states are kahrs illegal to be sold in??? in their present non-external safety model..
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  15. doublebarrel

    doublebarrel Member

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    At least it's not an internal lock. Lately Ruger acquired a nasty habit of embedding internal locks in their guns (LCR, for example) and not tell you where to find it (let alone how to remove the unwanted wart)...
     
  16. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    schotthsi,
    Why not silver solder the safety in the fire position. If that doesn't work, grind it down to almost flat (much less likely to be hit if it is 1/16 if an inch thick and almost flush with the slide / frame). You could do several things to keep the safety from being activated while pocket carrying. Then again, you could always just use a different method of carrying or use a different gun.

    I don't like the safety either, but then again I am not the intended demographic. I guess I don't really have a horse in this race, so my opinion is worth just as much as everyone elses who doesn't live in MA......squat.
     
  17. jocko

    jocko Member

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    I don't consider what kahr did here any different than the Smith M & P. I do believe it can be bought with an magazine safety and also with a internal lock also BUT one can also buy it with nothing but the trigger safety.

    Kahr presently makes over 24 different models in thier line and IMO addiing one model with complaint features to allow it to be sold in Mass. is not a bad idea. Indeed scythefwd is dead right, if ur not a Mass resident, why should we be that concerned and if your are a Mass resident, you mght feel that kahr did what they had to do to get a kahr into a Mass residents hands legally....

    Personally for me I don't see a external safety on a gun as a bad thing, it is just that we kahr owners do like our kahrs they way they are . These trigger safetys IMO are a very poor excuse for a safety. the best safety ever made was just keeping ur bugger finger in ur nose!!!!!
     
  18. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    At least your writing has gotten a little better...a little. And, right back at you on the comments things. What do you mean by "pegged"?

    Such a sage little "nugget" of wisdom right there. Is it really so hard to add "yo" to "ur" so you don't sound like a teenager texting her BFF? :rolleyes:
     
  19. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    YET... Before jocko jumps my sheeyat and says these design changes will NOT make it out of MA... Consider the other companies that have added crap to their guns...ALL of a new model to make it legal to be sold EVERYWHERE. For that, I bring you one of the most popular handguns in history. The famous Ruger .22lr Mk series. Can you EVEN buy a new one without a loaded chamber indicator OR a magazine disconnect? Even in gun friendly states these days? No you can NOT. So, jocko, why didn't Ruger just make a MA compliant version of the Mk III? Hmmm? Oh, wait...they did and now it's sold EVERYWHERE with no option for the "old" design without the extra "features" because it completely REPLACED the Mk 1/II design on their assembly line.

    So, jocko, DESPITE what you "think" Kahr told you...that does NOT mean they won't change their minds down the road if/when they decide it's just easier and/or economically feasible to make ONE type of PM9. Think about that before saying, yet again, that Kahr will never do that, ok? :rolleyes:
     
  20. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Your ire is misplaced. It should be toward Massachusetssss, not Kahr. Reengineering a gun never designed to have a manual safety is not easy. Perhaps that was the best they could do without designing a whole new gun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  21. scotthsi

    scotthsi member

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    We'll see...
     
  22. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    As long as you're not in Massachusetssss. :p
     
  23. jocko

    jocko Member

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    wscotths, u could indeed be right. NO one knows down the road what laws will cause gunc ompanies to bow but as of now I willgo with what kahr is telling me and I see no reason to not believe them. One model in over 24 with a design change that allows it to be sold in a state that previously outlawed it does not make it the norm either. If you don't like my spelling, just pass it right on buy, u seem to read my posts on other forums. Yup tye ruger MK11's have alot of that safety crap on them also. I noticed though their lcp that they introudced about a year ago HAS ZERO HUMM.. Time will tell indeed. Right now I willgo with what they are telling me.

    You can buy the M & P with or without two safety options, haven't heard any complaints from Smith owners
     
  24. jocko

    jocko Member

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    haranguer: U got that right. Most crap starts on the west coast anyhow, with emissions, guns etc. Mass is just a subsidairy of california anyhow!!!!

    Glock cannot import their 380 into this country due to lack of qualified points to allow importation. LEO's can laay claim to them but we can't. Just the nature of the beast...Kahrs are complaint with california's gun requirements, some gun companies are not. the Ruger lcp and kel tecs 380 are two that come to mind. I have no idea what guns are not legal in Mass either but I am sure kahr is not the only one either. Some will jsut choose to pass them buy and work on the good states, Kahr must have seen a need to do this in their home state.. The thing that I hate most about that new model is that butt ugly safety warning right on top of the damn slide.....
     
  25. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    I'll never understand UP to Fire and Down for SAFE but that arraingment has been used in some platforms for decades.

    And having the options doesnt seem to have hurt the M&P line as jocko pointed out.

    Its amusing when an OP doesnt get eveyone agreeing with themselves that they start acting all butt hurt and will start critisizing gramer and spelin in an attempt to dismiss the content of a post.


    Like it = buy it
    Dont like it = dont buy it
     
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