Kahr vs Kel Tec Mini Handgun

Status
Not open for further replies.
4

4Freedom

member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
674
Hi, I am looking for a good conceal piece and was thinking of getting Kel Tec. What are people's opinions of the quality of the Small Kel-Tec P-3AT verse the Kahr guns of similiar caliber. I am thinking the Kel Tecs must be one of the smallest conceal pieces you can buy. Some people have told me that Kahr makes a very good handgun. What is the best place to find one of these guns for a goodd deal?

Can anyone tell me what a good price is on the Kel-Tec P-3AT, if I was to buy at retail shop or dealer? I was also considering buying the Kahr KP3833 or a model like this. I see they are about twice as expensive as Kel-Tecs. What are people's opinions on these? I am not really sure how much larger the Kahr's are than Kel-Tec, either. It appears the Kahr .380 are slightly smaller, but a bit heavier than the Kel-Tecs. It also appears that Kahr makes .45ACP guns that are simliar in size to the small Kel-Tecs. What are people's opinions on these?
 
Way to add to the conversation orchidhunter, that was a pretty worthless post. Did you have a bad experience with kel-tec? Maybe you could explain instead of just typing a bunch of garbage and leaving.

I have a P3AT and I carry it every day and shoot it often at the range, its never failed to fire or jammed on me. It works great and its tiny, what more could you want in a carry pistol?
 
4Freedom, I have a Kel-Tec P3-AT that I carry every day, and the same reply as mgregg85, mine has never failed to fire. I think I paid $249 for mine but that was a year ago. FWIW the best $249 bucks I ever spent because I can't always carry something larger, so the KT fills that void very well. LM
 
No experience with Kahr, but I have heard good and bad things about KT and Kahr.

Great accessories are available for the Keltec, like Armalaser, belt clip, mag extensions (for improved accuracy), etc. They are also really great at doing what they are made for, but not the gun you're gonna take to the range to shoot "just for fun" IMO.

I have a P11, and I would advise either getting a P11 (9mm) or perhaps PF9 (single stack 9mm), OR a P32, rather than the P3at. Here's why:

-For a hit in weight and concealability (and believe me, at 6' 190-200 I can conceal the P11 in a BATHING SUIT and TANK TOP) you can upgrade to 11-13 rounds of 9mm in the p11, OR for a slight hit in power you can get a MUCH more concealable package in the P32. The p3at to me is a compromise that is too much of a compromise. You have a fairly marginal round in the 380 compared to the 9mm, for a not that much smaller gun. You could get a marginal round p32 that is almost as effective, with more capacity, in a smaller gun. Just something to think about.

I'm very happy with my p11. I think anyone who badmouths keltec, or for that matter any gun company, with no reason (e.g. "I got cussed at by customer service" or "they lost my gun" would be a great reason) is a troll. :fire:
 
Kel Tec P11 owner here. Bought mine used for $179. Runs great. Eats everything. Conceals nicely. I love it.
A 1911 with crisp single action trigger it AINT! But, it is a beautiful carry piece that'll do it's job well. Beautiful being defined as full of the above mentioned attributes; goes bang, conceals, great price.

I've shot one of the higher end Kahr 9mm. Nice gun indeed, but not nice enough for me to pay the higher price, the amount of which I cannot currently recall.
 
Heard a lot of good things about Kahr, but wanted something smaller/thinner in a pocket pistol.

The P-3AT is excellent. It seems very cheaply made in its appearance and feel, but after putting 200 rounds through it, I have only had one jam and it was my fault. I limp wristed my second shot ever with it and after than I adjusted my grip and never had the problem again.

I will say that the grip on the P-3AT is like coarse sandpaper on the palm and the small beaver tail section also rubbed the top back portion of my thumb raw.

That being said, the P-3AT is not meant to be a range gun or a long distance gun. It is meant to be shot just enough for you to break it in (100 rounds) and stay proficient with it at about 7 yards...which it is excellent at I might add.

I'd look into getting some rubber grips for it or perhaps one of the "wallet" holsters
Art of the Hide or ConcealCity.

This will help with the cheese grater effect on you hand. Additionally, get a small fine file or some fine sand paper and smooth down some of the molded plastic edges that the factory should have smoothed out for you. There are sections like you might find in plastic model car kits that you have to sand down to make smooth.

I also painted my sights so they stood out a bit better. They are quite small and the black on black coloring is makes them practically disappear. I simply went to the hobby store and got some red (for the front) and green (for the back) acrylic model paint and a super fine brush. Just make sure to clean off any grease or oil you might have on the sights. I used a bit of alcohol on a Q-Tip and then dried it with another Q-Tip. And if you mess up when painting it, just take it off with the alcohol and try again.

Kind of like this (this isn't mine however)
06P1060007web.jpg

One person I read suggested filing down the front sight and using a shotgun sight instead. Not sure how well that would go over with the warranty division at Kel-Tec...


Make sure you take a look at Bobo's Pocket Auto Comparison Chart here on THR.
 
I own the Kahr mk40 and all the Kel-tecs in question: p11, pf9, p3at. Personally, I don't consider the 380 enough gun to carry as a primary. The Kahr is a bit heavy, but it's a great piece. These days I lean more towards one of the Kel-tec 9's. If I owned one of the Kahr polymer series, I might carry it in stead of the Kel-tec. But I'm not sure - the KT's are pretty good.
 
There is no meaningful size difference between the P-3AT and the P32. There are some companies working on better rounds for the .380, e.g. Hornady, so the capabilities of the round will continue to get better. There is nothing going on for the .32 ACP. Double Tap offers a loading of the 90gr Speer that chronos at 1000 fps out of the P-3AT. The P32 gives one more round but the .32 has some challenges. It is a semi-rimmed cartridge so it is susceptible to rim-lock, which is where the rim of the top cartridge in the mag gets stuck behind the rim of the round below. If extra care is taken when loading the magazines the risk can be minimized but can never be eliminated. The risk goes up when you use hollow point rounds because they don't fill the magazine from front to back they are able to move and lock rims. There is a mod you can do to the magazine where you insert a wire up the back of it to take up the extra space with hollow points. Keltec will do this for you if you send them back your magazines.

Kahr give you the option of bigger calibers but you will pay over 2x the price of the P-3AT to get it.

Also look at the Ruger LCP. I have a P-3AT that I like and that runs 100% but if I were buying today I would get the LCP. Don't let the recall scare you away. All of the ones on the shelf now should already come with the upgrade. The only problem was that if dropped at just the right angle onto a hard surface they could discharge. Same thing for Glocks, in the early 90's lots of police departments wouldn't adopt them because of this problem, but they haven't done a recall. The reason I would go with the LCP is the trigger bar inserts from the top instead of the bottom and there have been reports of them dropping out on the Keltec. Some loctite removes this problem but it's better to have the problem eliminated by design.
 
Last gun show I went to I was planning on shopping for Kel-tecs. I know they definitely have a lot of very satisfied customers. However after looking at so many Kel-tecs I was just not inspired by the rough cuts of the metal and just the overall cheap look and feel of them. Maybe that's purely psychological but so be it. I ordered a Kahr PM9 for $606 delivered (plus $10 for my local transfer) from budsgunshop.com

It's currently in possession of UPS. I pick it up tomorrow. These seem to be hot guns right now so it's hard to find great deals on them.

Aside from the super expensive Rohrbaugh and the Kel-Tecs it's the only other 9mm that I know of that I consider truly small enough and light enough for normal front pocket carry.

Oh yeah, here's a helpful chart:
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

bc
 
The Kahr P380 was recently released but I don't know of anyone that actually has one yet. It looks to be a great gun and, if it's anything like the other Kahrs it should be a solid little piece. If you are wanting it soon, I'd get the proven Kel-Tec and let someone else iron out the 1st year issues that most new product offerings seem to suffer from. If you want something nicer with a few more features, I'd wait for the Kahr.

It has
  • 2.5" stainless match grade barrel
  • Slide lock when empty
  • Stainless Slide
  • adjustable sights
  • 2 magazines

I have a a Kel-tec P3at and a Kahr CW9 and I definately see one of the P380s in my not-to-distant future.
img_PA_p3833.png


mdtl_p3833vsp3at.jpg
 
Also look at the Ruger LCP
Click to expand...

I'd agree, but I'd also say wait a year. The P-3AT has been out longer and the issues are pretty well known.

Give the LCP a little more time for any further flaws to be exposed.


New guns are like new models of cars...wait at least a year before buying one so other people can find out which bits don't work right and the company fixes them.

Even though I have a P-3AT, I'll probably look at an LCP in the next year or so.

Though I have to say, the Kahr P380 is also of interest to me now.

Mind you, these are all just for pocket guns. They'll never replace my SIG as the main carry.
 
Interestingly, I notice that the Kahr P380 actually has sights and a slide release.

It occurs to me that what makes the Kel-Tec P-3AT an especially nice pocket gun is its simplicity. The sights on it are practically non-existent and therefore they'll probably never snag on something. And not having a slide release adds to the mechanical simplicity which means there's less that could potentially break.
 
OH man.. this will be tough decision. Perhaps the P-3AT Kel-Tec still seems on the horizon. I just spent over $5000 in rifles and accessories, ammo. I think I could really help me saving a budget. I just want it as a small backup piece. I am considering buying a Springfield , Sig or 1911 of some sort other other main piece. I will be willing to fork out more for that. Although, I can picture this small handgun to be important if I am forced not to be able to carry my main piece, such as hot day in summer with little clothing to conceal. The Kahr looks bit spendy and the complexity I can see may be an issue; although I am not sure. It would be nice to have a .45 I could carry in my pocket, but I guess that is not practical and you won't be able to put many rounds in a mag.

I thank peopel for good advice on this thread. I am new to handguns and sitll thinking of best route to take. I need to also look into the Ruger peopel mentinoed. I would liek to get a gun that has been tested and not some new model prone to any issues though. I would think this gun would be the life saver if the bigger one fails or is not available.

So between .32 and .380, I suppose most people seem to lean towards the .380 Kel-Tec? One person mention it has more bullet types available. I like to load the gun with best ammo possible obviously.

Anyone know a good place to find a used or cheap Kel-Tec? Some people have quoted me erroneous prices.
 
Digme, we'll be watching for the pictures and a range report if you don't mind.
Click to expand...

Sure thing. It might be a week or so because we just adopted a boy last month...it's hard for me to just say, "See ya, I'm going to the range!" to my wife after she's been home all day with him.

brad
 
p3at owner here. like it. carry it. got pulled over awhile ago by the local police. i told him i have a ccl and am carring. after retrieving the p3at he tried to lock the slide back. kind a laughed to myself :]
 
Best bet is a P-32 with the extended mag, the only truly pocketable gun with 11 rounds. I'll take the tiny ballistic hit vs the .380 for the extra rounds and better track record.

If the .32ACP just isn't enough power for you then the .380 won't be either, in that case get the Pf-9 or a G26. Either way its IWB with jeans.
 
I don't mind the ballistics of the .32 so much, it's the fact that these rounds have a rim and the propensity to rimlock. I tried a p32 and had rimlock too many time to have ever been 100% comfortable carrying it. This isn't a Kel-tec thing either, all .32 have this potential.
 
For prices I use Bud's,http://www.budsgunshop.com, as a guide. His prices include shipping so the only thing to add is a transfer fee which runs $20 for me locally.

A blued P-3AT should be around $250 - $275. Add $25 for hard chrome. The LCP might be a little more but should still be under $350.

ETA: CDNN http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ has the P-3AT for $219 + $10 shipping + FFL transfer fee (should be about $25).

To find a transfer FFL in your area enter your zipcode at the buyer's page on Gunbroker.com http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

The catalog you download at the CDNN site does not have prices listed. You have to get the printed one or call.
 
Last edited:
The Kel-tec bluing is thin at best in my experience, factor in $40 to have the slide nickel plated. The factory chrome versions are generally unobtainium.
 
The KT bluing is not the best but if you treat the gun with Militech-1, retreat it every 3-6 months and wipe the gun down once a week or so you'll never have a problem with it. If you go to the website for Militec-t they will send you a free 1oz sample (runs about $8 in the store) which is enough to treat a P-3AT for the next decade or longer. To treat it:
1. field strip the gun
2. put a few drops of Militec on a cleaning patch and coat the outside of barrel, inside of the barrel, guide rod, takedown pin, outside of slide, and inside of slide with a thin coat.
3. Put a piece of foil on a cookie sheet and put the slide, barrel, and guide rod on it
4. Put sheet in toaster oven or regular oven at 225 degrees for 10 minutes. (don' worry there is no smell)
5. Remove and let cool to room temperature
6. Wipe gun with a dry patch
7. Repeat steps 2 - 6 two more times for a total of three heat and cool cycles.
8. Wipe it down and lube and reassemble as normal. For me that means a touch of Tetra gun grease on the slide rails, working the slide a few times to spread it, and wiping off any excess.

Before doing the Militech treatment I used to get an occasional bit of surface rust on the slide, especially during the summer if I was sweaty. Since doing the Militech treatment I've never had the problem again. It's one of the few product that really does work as advertised.
 
Thats one option but for $40 including shipping I had shootiniron do a nickel plate which requires zero maintenance.


keltekP-32copy.gif
 
The Kahr P380 sure looks awesome.

But as of now I would go with the Ruger lcp.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Small 9mm Kel-tec vs Kahr
2 3
Replies
51
Views
5K
Defensory
D
T
  • Locked
  • Poll
Kahr PM9 or Kel-Tec P11?
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
Watch-Six
W
F
  • Locked
Finally get to carry a pistol. Now looking for new pistol
Replies
8
Views
870
denfoote
D
M
  • Locked
Kahr PM9 vs. Kel-Tec P-11?
Replies
19
Views
7K
SSN Vet
SSN Vet
S
  • Locked
Kel-Tec or Kahr
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
MyRoad
M
Back
Top