Kahr PM9 vs. Kel Tec P11

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halvey

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Ok, I hope this doesn’t turn into a bashing thread… :)
I am pretty much thinking I am getting a Kel Tec P11, but there’s an outside chance I will get a PM9 instead. Any reason why I should get the PM9 over the P11? The real world numbers, listed below, show besides the P11 being slightly talker and wider, they will pretty much carry the same. I’d probably carry it IWB, maybe in a pocket holster.

P11
Length 5.6”
Height 4.3 “
Width 1.0”
Weight empty 15.6 oz.
Weight loaded 20.0 oz.

PM9
Length 5.6”
Height 4.0 “
Width 0.9”
Weight empty 16.7 oz.
Weight loaded 20.0 oz.

Anyone with experience with both? I’d really like to hear from these people.

I have an early P3AT and it has never choked. No fluff n bluff just oiled it out of the box and shot it. I’ve put well over 1000 rounds through it, so I’m hoping I get lucky again.:)

I know the finish on the Kahr is a lot better, but this is a SD gun, and will take a decent amount of abuse. Is the trigger in the PM9 that much better? I’ve shot both, and while the PM9 is nice, I’m wondering if it’s worth double? I’m not considering anything else – R9, PM40, P45 etc. Opinions appreciated on the comparison of the two.
 
I've looked at both.

P11 trigger, you need to get in there and fluff and buff. It's a longer pull much like a revolver. hammer fired whereas the PM9 is striker fired and similar to the glock safe action (kahr is a single stack glock IMHO). Neither has a great trigger, in fact many also recommend doing the same types of modifications to the Kahr as people do with the Glock, there's the "elite" type parts to get as well. If you come from shooting Glocks get the Kahr, If you come from shooting revolvers go with the Kel-Tec.

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175493
http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2005/03/how-to-make-glock-not-suck.html

Honestly though, the P11 has been around for a while, I think Kel-Tec has come a long way in quality control and I heard on Kel-Tec forum that they're coming out with a single stack 9mm slightly bigger than the P3AT. George Kellgren, the founder and designer is a very smart man and has been able to put quality american made pistols on the market at a very competitive price, I have no doubt a single stack 9mm from kel-tec would smash the competition from Kahr and Rohrbaugh. In short, I'm waiting for their single stack 9mm.
 
I have experience only with the P-11 and can tell you that it works well.

However, the Kahr has a steel trigger and that alone is a worthwhile reason to buy it.

Matter of fact, if someone made a similar size and weight model that had NO polymer - that would be my choice.
 
Well, I have a PM9 now and had a P-11 a while back. Just looking at the numbers, you really can't make an informed decision. The PM9 is more expensive for a reason. Better fit and finish, better sights, better trigger (this was the major thing on the P-11 that made me decide to sell it), more accurate, smaller (by a tad), stainless slide, just a better gun all the way around. Now, that doesn't mean the P-11 is junk, just not as good. I'd spend what your budget allows. If you can afford the Kahr, get it. You will not regret it.

Greg
 
An extension spring as a mainspring in the Kel-tec shouldn't be a problem if it is designed right. Any spring properly designed should have infinite life - the exception would be magazine springs which are really pushed to the limits. If I had to pick a gun, I would pick the Kahr not just because of the fit and finish, but that it can deliver, using the same ammuntion, 10-15% more energy than the Kel-tec, which has a cheaper barrel and a much looser chamber.
 
I Own Both, I carry Both at times...

Here is how I see them stack up:

PRICE - P11 wins Hands Down

FIT/FINISH - slight edge to Kahr - both at acceptable for their respective pricetag

TRIGGER - slight edge to Kahr as it is smoooother... both are long

CAPACITY - BIG edge to P11

ACCURACY - both very effective @ 20 Yards or less... Kahr shoots a bit more accurate at greater distances but not much...

All things being equal (and I recognize that they are not) I would say that the P11 is the better value of the two with a greater capacity and is very easy to carry. The Kahr is a great shooter and a hair slimmer, but a bigger pricetag and lowered capacity leaves a little to be desired.

Just my opinion...
 
My P11 rides very comfortably in its IWB. It's no pocket gun. It's light enough, but I wear jeans, not cargo pants. If your pockets are big enough, it'll work in a pocket.

Mine is quite accurate, and has been totally reliable through at least a thousand rounds. I've done nothing to it, but load and shoot and clean. I have three of the mecgar mags for it. I'm thinking I may go for the new 12 round flush fit mags. It is as easy to fire as any of my revolvers DA and I like the long trigger for safety reasons. I don't think "safe actions" are all that safe. I'd rather have a hammer fired DAO.

When I bought the P11, the only Kahr was a rather heavy and somewhat larger steel frame gun. This is right after the Kel Tec came out. I like the capacity, too. Yeah, I'll place my shots and hopefully there'll be just one attacker, but those extras are nice to have just in case. It's the boy scout thing, be prepared.

I think the only other compact 9 I'd consider than the P11 is the Taurus. I don't much like "safe actions" so that leaves out the Glock 26. To me, the gun is the ultimate IWB PDW. It's so light you hardly are aware of it during the day. Accurate, handy, plenty of power and firepower. I've really not sweated the choice since I bought this thing. Been totally happy with it. I'd likely be just as happy with the Kahr, though. But, the money would win me over to Kel Tec I'm afraid 'cause I ain't no doctor or lawyer.

Now, I'm wondering how a gun with the same barrel length can have 15% more velocity than another. Loose barrel fit? Lame. I'd like to see hard numbers on that one, chronographed with my loads, before I can swallow that one. :rolleyes: Might be possible, but I'm a show me kinda guy for stuff like that.
 
I own both a Kel-Tec P11 and a Kahr PM9. The PM9 is a much better gun because it is more concealable, has a much smoother trigger, has less recoil and his more accurate than a P11. The PM9 is also rated to shoot +P ammo. If you can afford a PM9, buy it. Otherwise buy a P11 because it is a good value for around $250. If ammo capacity is a concern with the PM9, carry an extra mag or two.
 
Ive had both and still carry a P11. Id take the Kahr out of your choices...but I cant bitch about my little KT either. The kahr trigger is light years ahead of the KT. You light want to look at Skyy's CPX1....as far as I can tell the quality is right up there with Kahr, but I havent shot mine yet either.
Shoot well.
 
I have both also. The PM9 is in my pocket as I type this. I find the Kahr feels better in my hand than the Keltec. The trigger is better on my Kahr than the Keltec. The Kahr has better sights. If money were an issue, I'd only have the Keltec. Since it's not, my Kahr has night sights too :rolleyes: But, I think you need to shoot both before you make up your mind. Hope that helps.
 
I've handled & dry fired both, and live fired the Karh.

The P11 trigger was the worst I'd ever seen. Ever. Even worse than the top loading Grendl.

I hated it.

hate, hate hate.

Of course, that's subjective, and ymmv.

Nuff said.
 
Kel Tec not a thing of Beauty!

The Kel Tec is not a thing of beauty but the P11 and P32 I have used have always gone bang when needed with greater combat accuracy than what’s needed at the ranges they should be deployed at. I find them to be light and easy to carry and priced right for a back up gun that is so far dependable.
 
I bought a Kel-Tec P11 as a compact "go anywhere" type gun.

I've fired about 300 rounds through it so far, and it has yet to even hiccup. The grip feels a little odd to me, but a slip on rubberized grip helped. It hides very well, and has a decent capacity.

However, I will be selling it shortly. When I was shopping around for a handgun of this type, many described the trigger as being like a double action revolver. I would describe it more like a door latch full of sand. The pull is incredibly long and seems to just get harder as your finger draws back. The full range of travel for each shot is from nearly touching the front inside of the trigger guard, and completely to the rear. The trigger makes the gun nearly useless to me as a defensive firearm, as I cannot fire it quickly or accurately enough, certainly not under the duress I would be in a life or death situation.

Some say they can shoot them fine, I cannot. I admit it has been reliable, and would make an ok backup weapon.
 
bigcozy said:
Jury is still out on SKYY:

http://www.skyyindustries.com/

They do some trolling on other people's forums:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2505;action=display;num=1132099080;start=30
Click to expand...

Man, that is ballsy - posting right on a competitor enthusiasts' forum.

As a lawyer who has defending more than a few copyright and trademark infringement laws, I'd be concerned about how close that slide comes to Kel Tec's design.

Somebody has always got to cut in line or take more than they should to make some money!:barf:
 
I'm in the same quandry. I can either afford to buy a single PM9 or P9 -- or TWO P11s (or Skyys, or a PT111 and a P11...).

I'm not crazy about do-it-yourself gunsmithing -- you should see the reblueing jobs I've attempted :rolleyes: . On the other hand, I had a PM9 for about 200 rounds and didn't like it. What to do, what to do...

EDIT: Or maybe a P11 and a piece of Xmas jewelry for my wife?
 
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