Kansas and Nebraska gun shops: what gives?

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Monkeyleg

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For the past two weeks I've been calling gun shops all over the country to offer them a free listing and trial subscription on my website (which, of course, I'll be trying to shamefully promote here soon ;) ).

The reaction from shop owners in WI, MI, IN, IL, IO, CA and MO to my calls has exceeded my expectations. But, for whatever reason, calls to gun shop owners in Nebraska and Kansas have been a disaster. I'm offering them free advertising, and it's like trying to sell ice to Eskimos.

Is the mindset different in these two states? I realize that there are a lot of one-man or mom-and-pop shops, but that's the case everywhere. I sense a two things: either a complete aversion to the internet; or the confidence that having a website--even though nobody can find it and it's terrible--is enough.

Any NE or KS gun shop junkies care to chime in?
 
Yeah, what's the scoop? I know a couple you may not have called, I could run it past them.
 
Thanks for the replies, all. The site is http://www.gunshopfinder.com. Right now I have shops in the Midwest--WI, MI, MN, IN, IL, MO, IO, NE, CA, and one shop in KS that are doing the full-page description.

I don't want to make a major push on the search engines until I'm confident that I'm about a month or so out from having at least five to ten shops per state in all fifty. Not a good idea to have visitors show up and not find the content they want.

Not to sound like I'm harping on Nebraska or Kansas, but the reaction has been puzzling. In other states, I've had gun shop owners say that this is one of the best ideas they've ever seen. One gun shop owner had me worried. He didn't say a word as he looked at the site. I waited for him to check it out, then he said, "this is so cool." Older shop owners don't use the word "cool," of course, but many of them think it's a great idea.

One thing I know that is keeping gun shop owners from spending money is the dry conditions in states like Nebraska and Kansas. Up in Missouri and Iowa, they're worried about too much rain. Either way, those farmers can't afford to buy guns if the weather isn't right. That's been the case here in Wisconsin for over two years. Any Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association volunteer who's worked the gun shows in largely rural areas will tell you that the contributions are down considerably from what they were just two or three years ago.

I'm just wondering if those of you in Nebraska or Kansas can shed some light on what might be a different mindset. I can't imagine anyone being more stingy with a quarter than a Wisconsin cheesehead. Maybe I was wrong.

The whole reason for me to do this site was that many gun shop owners thought it was needed. Also, I just burned out on a 25 year career as a photographer. And I wanted to do something that would help further gun ownership. Walmart, Cabellas and Gander Mountain don't fit that bill. I think the future of gun ownership is in the hands of the privately-owned shops who can tell you that .357 Sig will not work in a .357 Magnum.

An offer was made to me two years ago to become a full-time lobbyist for gun owners in Wisconsin, largely because of the time and effort I've put into the CCW effort here as a volunteer. If the offerers had suggested an income more than what I could make by delivering pizzas part time, i would have accepted.

I and others think that the gunshopfinder.com idea is very workable. What I cannot understand is what approaches almost animosity when I call shops in these two states.

That's why I'm looking for some views from the ground in those two states. California? They know they're going to be run out of business, but they like the marketing idea, and not so subtley suggest that they may not be around after the six-month trial subscription.

Ours is a really unusual country.
 
Monkeyleg, I am glad to see you finally get this off the ground.

If you have any promotional info that would fit on a single page, you could e'mail it to me, I'd be glad to print it out and distribute it to about 20 shops in my area. Or if you'd like I could design a small tri-fold brochure for you.
 
I think the gunshops in the larger cities (Wichita, Topeka, and K.C.) are doing pretty well and would appreciate your service. The ones in the smaller towns are not doing too well and are probably afraid to try anything new. I am always on the hunt for milsurps in these smaller towns in Kansas and I always see the same rifles on the racks - they sure are not moving. I don't know what keeps these guys in business.
 
The economy has been pretty bad the last couple of years, due to 9/11 and a couple of dry years. Also remember that the entire population of Nebraska is about 1.5 million.

I can't remember what KS population is, but I'm sure it's quite a bit more due to Wichita and KC,KS.

Gun dealers-mostly older people (40s, 50s, 60s, ) and stick to gun shows.
 
Thanks for the replies. Telemarketing isn't the easiest job in the world, and it does get frustrating when shops turn down free advertising. Maybe it's because "free" oftentimes winds up costing money when the company is unscrupulous.

I had a couple of shops in Topeka and Wichita say that they didn't need it because they had a website. Ok, fine. I tried searching for their sites on Google using the shops' names, and couldn't even find them. :rolleyes:

Anyway.

Bluesbear, thanks for the offer, but I don't have any printed material. I decided that direct mail, which typically has a return of about 1%, wouldn't do the trick. It has to be a phone call to get their attention.

The one thing I do love about the telemarketing job is sitting on the phone all day talking about guns. :)
 
Hi, WonderNine. One of the reasons I've tried to not promote the site for a few more weeks is that I'm afraid that potential gun shop owners will not understand what the site does, and just dismiss the cost out of hand.

I'm offering six months for free, which includes everything: the shop being searchable by map, by state, by the brands they carry, as well as other search features I haven't even announced yet. What I see as the major attraction is the ability of the shop to have a full-page description of everything they offer. Plus, the shops get unlimited classified ads with photos. At the end of the six months, if the shop owner doesn't want to pay, the shop is still listed under, for example, Kansas Gun Shops, with the shop's name, city and phone number. If they do want all the extra features, then the cost is $10 a month.

That's less than half of what a single-line Yellow Pages monthly listing costs. Unlike the Yellow Pages, I'll be able to tell subscribing shops how many people looked at the listing for gun shops in Kansas, or Michigan, or Nebraksa, or any other state. Once I have enough shops on board, I'll set some cookies to tell them how many visitors looked at their shop in particular. The Yellow Pages sure can't do any of that.

To get an idea of what a shop's page looks like, check out The Shooters Shop page at http://www.gunshopfinder.com/bytownresults.asp?offset=10&ID=3911

This is one of those ideas that a person gets maybe a few times in their lives, knows it's a good idea, has many other people say it's a great idea, but then faces the tough part of trying to convince those who would benefit that it's a good idea. It's challenging. Back in the 40's, 50's and 60's my dad--a GM engineer--went to management with ideas for features he'd designed that are now standard on just about every car. They didn't see the value at the time.

As to why there aren't any shops in ND: I haven't called North Dakota yet. I'm trying to do populous states one day, and then less populous the next. If I spent three days calling Nebraska, Kansas, and North Dakota, I think I'd go bananas. I can take rejection, but not constantly. Missouri was absolutely phenomenal: I made perhaps ten calls and got five shops that day. Don't know why, can't explain it, but the shop owners there really loved the idea.
 
MonkeyLeg, I wasn't referring to mailing.

What I mean was, that if you'll tell me what you are telling the shop owners over the phone, I can make a simple B&W tri-fold brochure and hand it out, in person, to my local gun shops. That way if they are interested they can contact you directly.

I have about 20 shops in a 15 mile radus of my house.

You could then offer the PDF file to other THR members.

I am sure there are some other THR members that would hand them to the owners of their local shops. Something handed to them by a regular customer might carry a little more weight than a telephone call from a stranger.

Just offering to help.
 
BluesBear, next to my wife's acceptance of my request to marry her, that's the most generous offer anyone has ever made to me.

Tomorrow I'll write up a description of the site--what it does, what it costs, and what it can do--and send a copy off to you for your approval. If you think it's worth your time to distribute the brochure, I'll certainly reimburse you in whatever manner is acceptable to you.

One thing I'd like to be clear about with fellow THR members is that I'm not posting all of this to shill some new Miracle Bore Cleaner, or other doo-dad. My hope is that the members of this forum, as well as others, will view the site as a useful tool.

Every few days I see a thread with a title such as "Any good gun shops in the Indianapolis area?" or somesuch, and I know the shops are there. Up until now, the only description of the shop that's been available has been the shop's name, city and phone number.

With Walmart, Cabella's, Gander Mountain and Bass Pro trying to drive the "real" gun shops out of existence, I think the site could help those real gun shops level the playing field a bit. I've had enough shop owners tell me about the tactics those big chains use to destroy the smaller shops that I'm afraid we could eventually see nothing but "mega mart" stores. And we all know that they won't carry handguns or "Evil Black Rifles." Heck, WalMart won't even sell you .22 ammo unless you tell the kid behind the counter it's for a rifle, not a pistol.
 
Kodiak AK, I absolutely did not know that. And I don't know why you mentioned it, but it's still funny.

I wonder if Phoenix AZ has the highest number of tanning salons in the US?

:D
 
I'm offering them free advertising, and it's like trying to sell ice to Eskimos.
I can drop those off to the three local shops if you want also .
 
BluesBear, Kodiak, here's a description of the site. I hope it's not too long, but there are a lot of points I need to make. Again, I really appreciate the offer to help promote this.

*************************

Up until now there has been no site like Gunshopfinder.com on the internet. The whole purpose of the site is to give those potential new customers who don't know your shop exists--and there are many gun owners in your area who don't--a way to find you. It also gives those "gun shop junkies" who like to take an afternoon drive to check out new gun shops a way to find you.

They can find your shop by clicking on a star on a map of your state. When they do, they'll get a list of the subscribing shops in that area. They can then click on a star next to your shop's name, and get a full page description of your shop: a general description, the brands you carry, range facilities if you have them, gunsmithing services, hours, directions to your shop, a photo of your shop, a link to your website if you have one, and more. You can put whatever information about your shop that you want on that page.

They can also find you by selecting the By Town link on our site and clicking on your state. That will give them a full list of all the subscribing shops in the state. Again, they can click on the star next to your shop's name and get the full page description.

Another way they can find you is by brand. We have over 1,000 pages of individual models from manufacturers such as Kimber, Remington, CZ, Beretta, Colt, HK, S&W, and more. And we're adding more product pages every week. When the potential new customer is looking at a model--say a Smith and Wesson Model 60--they get a photo and a description. There's also a pull-down menu which they can use to find a Smith and Wesson dealer in a particular state. And, again, they can click on the shop to get the full page description.

Included in this package is an unlimited number of classified ads, including photos.

We've made it extremely easy to create the pages and the classified ads; all you need to do is type information into boxes on a form. To add photos, you just click a "Browse" button and our software uploads the photo, sizes it and puts it in the right place on the page.

All of these features--the full page description, being searchable by brand and so on, and the classified ads--are part of what we call the Enhanced package. We're offering a free trial subscription for the Enhanced package for six months. At the end of six months we'll give you a call to see if you want to pay to subscribe. If you do, the cost is just $10 a month. If you don't want to pay to subscribe, your shop will still be listed for free on the Gun Shops page for your state.

Considering that a single-line Yellow Pages listing costs $20 to $25, reaches only potential customers in your immediate area, and provides them with only your shop's name, address and phone number, we think you'll agree that this is a very good deal.

To see what the site is all about, go to http://www.gunshopfinder.com . For an example of what a page looks like, go to the Wisconsin map at http://www.gunshopfinder.com/wisconsingunshopmap.asp and click on the star next to Milwaukee. You'll see two examples of shops that have added photos as well as full descriptions.

We just started calling gun shops in late April, and it will take until June before we have shops in all fifty states listed. It will be probably over a year before we've contacted every shop in the US. Based on our experience with doing other websites, we're very comfortable in making the prediction that by the beginning of next year the site will be getting at least 100,000 visitors a month, and probably more.

If you already have a website, that's commendable; most shop owners don't recognize the potential. However, unless you've invested a lot of money having a professional search engine optimization tech work on your site--a service that can cost $300 or more a month--chances are that most people won't find you if they don't know your web address.

We've successfully gotten many, many sites in the top rankings on the search engines. For example, if you do a search for CZ pistols, you'll find The Shooters Shop is number two on Google. They're number one for the term Ed Brown pistols. They're number five for Kimber pistols, number five for Wilson Combat pistols, number one for cartridge boards, and about number six or so for Bushmaster rifles. In short, we've gotten them in the ten top rankings for just about every line they specialize in.

Gunshopfinder.com will be in the top ten results for a whole slew of search terms, including product names like those above and dozens of others, as well as terms such as Kansas gun shops, Michigan gun shops, etc.

For most shops that have websites, visitors are going to find those sites more quickly through gunshopfinder.com.

Again, the whole purpose of this site is to increase traffic and sales for the subscribing shops. We hope you'll see the value in being listed on gunshopfinder.com. If you'd like to try the trial subscription, you can either click on the Contact Us link on the site, or call us at 414-543-1916. We'll be more than happy to write your page for you, as we've written the descriptions for every other shop that we have on the site right now.
 
well, that beats all.
Us kansas folks are not no tighter with our money then anybody else. we just dont get around much in this farm state. the roads;you see.
I have heard stories of a Cement road that goes clear to Topeka. Though i have not seen it and will not believe it till i do. Some dam fool called it the interstate highway and claimed it went to Nebraska! i was born at night, but not LAST nite!
Yep, i'm off to change the oil in the tractor then its off to town for ice cream at the seniors center and watch some 8 man football..
Kansas Rocks.:D
 
J. Garand, I hope you were just teasing and not taking offense. I know the midwest as well as anyone, the mindset of midwesterners, and all the rest. It's just that the reaction from NE and KS gun shop owners was decidely different. It may well have been due to the fact that I called both on Fridays, when maybe shop owners are just looking to get away and relax for a couple of days.

By the way, I heard it too that we have a Cement road that actually goes from Milwaukee to Chicago. 'Course, a body could get kilt in Chicago, so we don't use it much. I heard, too, that the Cement road actually will take you to New Yawk City! :eek:

Well, enough jawbonin'. Time to slop the hogs. ;)
 
I think J Garand was pullin' yer leg. Everyone knows that to get to Kansas you follow the Yellow Brick Road. :D
 
If I understand this correctly, you are offering this service for $10/month after the 6-month trial period. If so, sign me up for the next two years, if my business fits with your service.

I don't typically sell "normal" guns to individuals, but mainly deal with PDs and dealers on gun sales, so maybe I'm not right for your listing. That said, I believe people would like to know what they can get from me. Here's what I DO offer:

1. CCW training that has rapidly become known as the least expensive and most enjoyable course in the area (see http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176428 for a review.)

2. Aerial and moving target shooting instruction with rifle, pistol, and submachine gun.

3. Machine gun instruction/use (typical cost $20/three magazines for the mag-feds, with a choice of over a dozen guns.)

4. Instruction/familiarization with the more unusual guns out there: All variants of the .500 S&W, a wide variety of African rifles over .50 caliber, .50 BMG rifles including a 16-lb. gun that can be used to hit flying clays, FN 5.7 pistols, etc.

5. Hard-to-find and esoteric weapons, such as Gatlings, Hotchkiss cannons, custom elephant rifles, etc.

6. Paid speaking engagements on guns/political issues. Never been asked for a refund; have a lot of repeat requests.

My cell phone is acting wonky; email me at [email protected]

John Ross
 
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Speaking as one who lives in the corner of Kansas, I'll pass it along to a couple of the shops areound here. I stop in by one shop, as the guy who runs it, does so just to have a place to jaw with his friends. That is just about anyone who comes by. He's a WWII vet, and is pretty neat to visit with.

Already changed the oil in the tractor, but I gotta feed the chickens first, and check the fires under the still's before I ride the mule into town. Gotta get some more mash & sugar:D
 
Again, I appreciate all the replies. I got a couple of fine leads from people PM'ing me.

I'm beginning to think it's not a matter of the state, but the day of the week. The states that have been the most difficult have been those I've called on either Monday or Friday. So, don't bother to ask how today went. ;)
 
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