Kansas Gun Confiscations

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Don't get too comfortable about D.C. vs Heller, because all they need is an emergency to declare martial law, and all of our rights go out the window.
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US Constitution Article 1 Section 9:
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.
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They can't suspend Habeas Corpus without a revolution or invasion. The Posse Comitatus Act says they can't deploy the military for domestic policing without congressional approval.

Nevermind.....I was poking around and found this. Why wasn't this all over the news????
John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007
1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--

(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--

(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and

(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or

(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).

(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--

(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
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There goes Posse Comitatus. And this law combined with the Military Commissions Act is down right scary. I was going accuse some of you of being a little paranoid, but you guys are right.
 
Titan6:

Do you have any links or other references you can pass along? It would definitely help the ol' blood pressure. :eek:

Titan6 said:
This thing keeps turning up like a bad penny. Must be fourth or fifth time it has been posted. No one has ever been able to validate the authenticity of the information. Right now it is missing the paragraph where they claimed that cops were fired for stealing guns. Since this was clearly a verifiable lie it was removed.
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Here is some more of the "original"

http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=683577

As far as Greensburg, here is the shocking truth. I will simply state the facts. First of all, understand that it is not lawful to carry out a mandatory evacuation unless martial law has been declared. Martial law was NOT declared and folks in the town were told they had to leave and some were forced to leave at gun point because they didn't want to leave. The tornado happened at 9:46pm and they were forced to leave within a couple hours of it, being given no time to collect themselves or assess the damages or even try to pick up anything such as guns and valuables to take with them. Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified against the bill and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and shut off gas and power. This town was locked down tight for 4 days and no one was allowed in or out. The only people in that town those 4 days were Sheriffs Officers, Kansas Highway Patrol Officers, FEMA, National Guard, Police Officers from surrounding areas and some volunteers from Ft. Riley. They claim no one else was there or could have gotten in and out. Many guns and other valuables such as jewelry have gone permanently missing and have never been recovered. There were some houses that were not destroyed and were in tact at one end of town. Those folks did not want to leave but were forced to leave. When they returned they found their front doors kicked in and all of their guns and jewelry missing. Guns and ammo that were collected were taken to a trailer (18 wheeler size) and an ATF agent manned the trailer. When people first came to collect their guns they had to fill out a 4473 and get a nics approval before they could claim their guns. No one had paperwork, receipts, or lists of serial numbers because it had all blown away. Later into the process they quit demanding these items. Apparantly many guns were claimed by not the rightful owner. One man had 75 guns that did not belong to him, which he was busted for trying to sell. In one of the houses they busted into they found 5 full auto guns, C-4 explosive, grenades and a rocket launcher. This gentleman claimed to be ex military and kept them from that time. He was not charged as it was determined to be an illegal search and seizure. The people in Greensburg are a close tight knit community, everyone knows everyone kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their property. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun box was claimed by one man who had a very nice gun in it and when he opened the undamaged and closed box, not a mark on the box, he found an old rusted gun that was not his. Supposedly, 2 police officers from Wichita who were part of the task force during the 4 day evacuation were fired because they were found to have stolen guns and trying to sell them. The comment made to us was that none of the really nice guns were found. The main source of this information was a gentleman from Greensburg who is an FFL and has a gun shop outside of town and he is also a gunsmith. He sold a good portion of those guns to people in Greensburg and also has been working to repair many of their guns in the aftermath. When he went to claim his guns, from his home, not his shop as the shop was in tact and they did not break in the shop and take anything, he said the ATF agent basically told him to take anything he wanted. There was no collection list and guns were NOT cataloged for location of discovery or anything like that.
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Keep in in mind it keeps changing over time. The parts in bold there is no proof of whatsoever. The other parts are quite vauge.
 
One family, whose house was not damaged, reported that officers were going to remove them at gun point when they refused to leave their property and a gun fight was only averted when a KBI agent stepped in front of the other officers and pleaded with them to consider what they were doing. Those residents had taken up their shotguns and were not going to leave. We can only say thank heavens for that KBI officer who had the sense to realize what pressing these people at gun point would mean.
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Katrina was a training drill. This was a training drill. In both cases, numerous people reported that the "authorities did not help most people, and in many ways they made things worse."
They were not intending to help anyone. They were practicing the new "emergency management" techniques.
If/when we have a "national emergency" due to a terrorist attack ,economic emergency, natural disaster, or biological emergency, this is what I expect to happen all over the country.
Don't get too comfortable about D.C. vs Heller, because all they need is an emergency to declare martial law, and all of our rights go out the window.
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You can bet on it I`ll do what the family above did. If it does end in a gunfight I hope that the rest of the country will see and hear what went down. If the government thinks they can throw rights out the window and do this kind of crap, then I hope people will stand up and do what those people did.
 
My initial reaction to this is that the police in Kansas learned nothing from New Orleans, but I was wrong. They learned that in order to sucessfully confiscate guns, you have to first get rid of the people, that way you don't have to deal with annoying things like a video of 5 cops beating up a little old lady in her house.
 
Maybe you doubting Thomas' should do your homework before you go accusing someone of Patricia's integrity of being a liar.

The reason it's come up so many times is because a lot of folks are trying to pretend it didn't go down that way. Well, guess what? It's going to keep coming up until it's resolved.

Thanks for sticking in there Patricia!
 
Maybe we have too many policemen - who are all too eager to use thier power.

They keep us from defending ourselves - and arrest us if we do.

They invade our privacy.

They are dressing like storm troopers.

They force us to evacuate.

They routinely give us citations for the most innocuous traffic offenses.

But...THEY DON'T PROTECT US!


Perhaps less cops is the answer to NOT becomming a Police State.

NASCAR
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That is not the problem. The problem is that too many people don't have the courage to take up their arms and protect THEIR OWN rights. I see one small group of these people in the post above mentioned the rest did what sheep do.

What they're commanded.

If this was such a great small, tight-knit community, then they should have went to arms. They didn't. They rolled over.

And people laugh here laugh when I say that things like this should be answered with violence. That you can have my weapons over YOUR dead body.

This entire situation and every other situation like it would cease to happen if the residents simply picked up their guns as a collective and said "Come get them...".
 
I have spent some time scanning dozens of articles about this incident. News reports, personal accounts, essays and film reports and I can't find even a hint of improper behavior by authorities.
I am willing to be open-minded but can anyone provide a source other than this single anecdotal story?
 
I am not saying that bad things didn't happen but this trollish "report" has been showing up in various forums in various guises with no supporting evidence which leads me to doubt the veracity of the report.
 
my question is;

if my house survived and is intact,,,why would i leave???

why would they(the authorities) want me to leave???

shotguns would have been the least of their worries.....

i can take care of myself,,,,,,i AM prepared,,,,,thank you very much for your concern,,,i am not leaving my property

ocharry
 
They want you to leave so they can steal your belongings. The police are the thieves here. It is in their best interest that you not be around so they can steal your jewelry and firearms.

A gun safe is no longer sufficient. It must be disguised and difficult to find.

-T
 
I spoke to this lady today on the telephone...

I posted this on another board after I spoke to this lady on the telephone.

Here is more information and links for those of you who might be interested in this story. Thank you.


http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222296&page=3


YOU might want to call this lady and/or read this~~~
http://www.ksccw.com/site/index.php

http://www.ksccw.com/site/forumdisplay.php?f=47

UNDER the Bench and then under Greensburg Report.

http://www.ksccw.com/site/showthread.php?t=6209


Patricia A. Stoneking
Target Master Shooting Academy, LLC
NRA Certified Training Counselor
Law Enforcement Certified Tactical Firearms Instructor
Northeast Quadrant Director, Board of Directors, Kansas State Rifle Association
Legislative Liaison, Board of Directors, Tri-County Rod and Gun Club
Vice President, Board of Directors, Kansas Second Amendment Society
P. O. Box 117
Bonner Springs, KS 66012
(913) 667-3044
[email protected]
www.targetmasteracademy.com


The NRA, GOA, SAF, etc. have the latest information about this situation. The ball is in their court.

My own MSSA man wrote to her... she told me this on the telephone today.

This lady does not have time to go all over the internet to many forums while running her own business. She is a credible person who saw/heard more stories come up AFTER the fact.

I see more and more people 'think' or scoff that some things did or did not happen. Some people/victims might not want to talk about it in the main stream because of fear from the higher ups. Yes, those things can happen!

Before some of you immediately put down this woman and the people who were so concerned with everything that had happened to them and what went down from losing everything along to other situations... READ the above links.

MORE came UP about what had happened AFTER the initial report from the NRA. Hello out there!!! Some people/victims may be concerned about 'backlash' and/or 'blow back' my words not theirs.

If you have any questions - you can call the lady... better yet READ what is written and/or get on a mailing list.

I just got off the telephone with her, gave her my private/unlisted number, my email and so forth. This is a credible story and for some of you that SCOFF at the story and with MORE DETAILS that came out after the NRA initial investigation... more power to you.

As I have said in the past... sometimes gun owners are their own worst enemies. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves too. NO offense. But hey! It is a free country for now so whatever trips your trigger!

CALL the lady as I did... to the ones who think that you know it all. READ the information. SEE what came out after the initial NRA and other investigations!

Yours in liberty,

Catherine - Montana
 
A follow up letter from her after I called her on the telephone...

Hello Catherine:

It was very nice to speak with you today. Thank you for your call. I have added you to my email distribution list.

The KSCCW.com website is http://www.ksccw.com/ We have two threads folks may be interested in. In THE BENCH under GREENSBURG REPORT and in PENDING AND FUTURE LEGISLATION under THE EMERGENCY POWERS ACT.

Effective June 1st I will be President of the KSRA instead of Northeast Quadrant Director. I also might add the NRA has honored me with the Marion P. Hammer Woman of Distinction Award for 2008.

Patricia

Patricia A. Stoneking
Target Master Shooting Academy, LLC
NRA Certified Training Counselor
Law Enforcement Certified Tactical Firearms Instructor
Northeast Quadrant Director, Board of Directors, Kansas State Rifle Association
Legislative Liaison, Board of Directors, Tri-County Rod and Gun Club
Vice President, Board of Directors, Kansas Second Amendment Society
P. O. Box 117
Bonner Springs, KS 66012
(913) 667-3044
[email protected]
www.targetmasteracademy.com

~~~~~
 
Quote~~~

QUOTE from the email:

Effective June 1st I will be President of the KSRA instead of Northeast Quadrant Director. I also might add the NRA has honored me with the Marion P. Hammer Woman of Distinction Award for 2008.

YOU go lady!

Thank you.

Catherine - Montana
REAL name and REAL place.
 
For all the doubters:

I have the pleasure of meeting and associating with Patricia. She has worked very hard at getting Kansas CCW and is continuing the fight for RKBA in our state.

She spoke on behalf of HB2811, The Kansas Emergency Powers Bill which if passed would prohibit local authorities from gun confiscations. During the hearing one of the Greensburg residents did speak out at the hearing about the confiscations. Since then Patricia has documented more people who have come forward. Most of these folks are afraid to speak out for a number of reasons, probaly due to small town politics and/or fear of FEMA retribution. FEMA hasn't paid many claims yet.

The story of the machineguns and silencers is true. I verified this with several LEO's I know who were there. The guy involved will never be charged because the weapons were strewn across a city block and there's no way to prove they were his or just which house they were stored in.

I spoke with several Emergency managers that I know about this. They all shrugged their shoulders and said it's possible: The first 24 hours of the disaster were pretty badly mismanaged until some new Incident Command staff took over on Monday.

I don't think anyone's finding fault with storing firearms found in the rubble the way they did. I've also heard of Law Enforcement removing guns from a couple despondent folks during the cleanup in an effort to get them some mental help. I don't have an issue with that, either.

However, there appears to be evidence of people forcibly removed from their homes even when they sustained little or no damage without a order of martial law and these folks finding firearms removed from the home in their absence.

At the time of the earlier reports, folks involved were simply too busy in salvage mode to be bothered with pressing this issue. Now that things are beginning to stabilize in the town the stories are coming out.

I suggest we all keep an open mind and let those verifying the stories do their job.
 
Thank you~~~

QUOTE:

For all the doubters:

I have the pleasure of meeting and associating with Patricia. She has worked very hard at getting Kansas CCW and is continuing the fight for RKBA in our state.

She spoke on behalf of HB2811, The Kansas Emergency Powers Bill which if passed would prohibit local authorities from gun confiscations. During the hearing one of the Greensburg residents did speak out at the hearing about the confiscations. Since then Patricia has documented more people who have come forward. Most of these folks are afraid to speak out for a number of reasons, probaly due to small town politics and/or fear of FEMA retribution. FEMA hasn't paid many claims yet.

The story of the machineguns and silencers is true. I verified this with several LEO's I know who were there. The guy involved will never be charged because the weapons were strewn across a city block and there's no way to prove they were his or just which house they were stored in.

I spoke with several Emergency managers that I know about this. They all shrugged their shoulders and said it's possible: The first 24 hours of the disaster were pretty badly mismanaged until some new Incident Command staff took over on Monday.

I don't think anyone's finding fault with storing firearms found in the rubble the way they did. I've also heard of Law Enforcement removing guns from a couple despondent folks during the cleanup in an effort to get them some mental help. I don't have an issue with that, either.

However, there appears to be evidence of people forcibly removed from their homes even when they sustained little or no damage without a order of martial law and these folks finding firearms removed from the home in their absence.

At the time of the earlier reports, folks involved were simply too busy in salvage mode to be bothered with pressing this issue. Now that things are beginning to stabilize in the town the stories are coming out.

I suggest we all keep an open mind and let those verifying the stories do their job.
jaholder1971 is online now Report Post

~~~
THANK you for your input!

Please give Patricia my best and thanks for all of her hard work. Thanks to all of you.

Sincerely,

Catherine - Montana
 
Dear Threeband,

Will you be able to put this in another section too? Legal or somewhere else so that it gets some attention there too?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Catherine
 
There should be an Amendment about how the government can't forcibly remove a citizen from their home for any reason except for the pursual of justice.

The government should NEVER be allowed to tell Americans what is and isn't good for them. We're not stupid. Some Americans do stupid things, like crack, but in the same way we have the right to keep and bear firearms even though criminals use them for unethical reasons, I would prefer if we were ALLOWED to use our better judgement in any and every situation.
 
My wife and I have taken firearms instruction from Patricia here in Overland Park. She is a regular at the Bullet Hole in Shawnee. I find her to be credible. I'm on her email mailing list.
 
Fight Back.

Hey there:
Why can't those people demand a search of the homes of the agents involved ?
What would happen when certian arms and such were found in their possesion ?
Sounds to me like our leaders best get their act to gether, before things get ugly.
I'm not leaving my home ! No matter who tells me too..........:eek:
 
There are more updates on the KS website.

Pending...

Emergency Powers

Greensburg is under that other link... the Bench.

Thank you.

Catherine
 
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