ATF disaster relief?

[F4GIB]

Firearms Confiscated During Kansas Tornado:
...Guns and ammunition that were collected were taken to a trailer and an ATF agent manned the trailer. When people first came to collect their guns they were asked for proof of ownership such as receipts and serial number lists and they had to fill out a 4473 and get a NICS approval before they could claim their guns. No one had paperwork, receipts, or lists of serial numbers because it had all blown away. Later into the process they quit demanding these items and asked only for a list with make, model and description of the firearm. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun case was claimed by one man who had a very nice trap shotgun in it and when he opened the undamaged and closed case, he found not his nice BT99 but another damaged gun that did not belong to him. That $1500.00 BT99 has never turned up. One comment made by all sources is that many "nice" guns were never recovered. Every source has reported that little to no care was taken with any of the firearms retrieved and taken into protective custody.... One resident said "they were just thrown in there in piles"...
(by Particia Stoneking)

http://www.ksccw.com/site/showthread.php?t=6209

[ED - Tornados are apparently now federal offenses giving the ATF "local" jurisdiction to seize and hold firearms and run NICS checks on victims seeking the return of their OWN property.]

 

[ilbob]

One would think that whomever collected these things in the first place would have written some kind of report detailing where they collected it from. One would think such a report would tend to be fairly compelling evidence as to ownership.

 

[Ala Dan]

Bad Call

by the ATF~! The Feds promote HELP when diaster strikes; but how
in the hell the Federal gu'mit gets off the train is beyond me~? They
know damn good and well, that they are STEALING from the working
class citizen; and WILL NEVER be prosecuted for their crimes~!

 

[waterhouse]

I don't think all blame can be placed on the ATF on this one. I'm guessing that as things were collected from the area during the clean up process (or during evacuation) be they collected by volunteers or local LEOs, someone noticed that some of the things that were being collected were guns.

That someone didn't know who to turn to, and the federal agency that has firearms in its title probably came up, so the ATF got called and sent a local agent out. ETA: I'm not saying the guns should have been collected or confiscated by local LEOs, only that I don't fault the ATF agent in charge of the gun trailer.

It is easy to hate the ATF, but the post seems to imply that the ATF agent stole the BT99, and that many nice guns were never recovered. I'd submit that a more likely scenario is that many nice guns were never turned in to the ATF. Perhaps someone found an empty gun case, and turned it in, and the ATF guy stuck one of the guns that had been turned in in the case, so as not to have people upset that the guns were "just thrown in piles."

From the article, they make it sound like the whole town was shut down, and thus the stealing must have been done by "the government." But then the author states that several people, including the press, were allowed in and out. I don't know how it is normally handled, but it seems to me that it is pretty difficult to completely, 100% positively, evacuate a town of any reasonable sizeand keep it evacuated.

If a BT99 was logged in to the trailer by the ATF agent, that's one thing, but if all that happened is he had a stack of guns and he tried to make sure they were returned to their rightful owners I can't fault him too much.

Imagine it was you in charge of that trailer. You have a stack of guns in the trailer, and a line of people out front. They are saying things like "I lost a Glock" and "I lost my 870." It is feasible to try and get the guns back to their owners, so in a perfect world you ask people to provide proof of ownership. Later, when it becomes clear this system isn't going to work (since proof of ownership was swept away by nature) you change to a different method.

As for the 4473s, if a guy comes up and says "I'm looking for an AR-15, it has a Bushmaster lower and a LMT upper with a 14.5" barrel and a permanently attached flash hider, and an Aimpoint in a Larue mount," it is probably safe to give that guy his gun, even without him knowing the serial number. But just in case another guy shows up later asking for the same gun, wouldn't it be handy to know the name and address of the guy who you gave the AR to?

I'm not saying they handled the situation perfectly, but there is not enough information it that post for me to think this is another ATF atrocity.

 

[WayneConrad]

Please see also http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=345898

 

[SomeKid]

Looking back on it, another huge mistake I see was made by gun owners. They should never have given in when attacked, regardless of who employed their attackers.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

I agree with the title of this thread: we need relief from the disaster that is the ATF.

 

[ctdonath]

Apparently the accuracy of the reporting of the incident is in doubt.