Kansas gun laws

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SmershAgent

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I'll be moving to KS at the end of the month; are there any weird laws of which I should be aware? I know carrying concealed is illegal, but having lived in Illinois all my life, I'm used to that sort of thing.

It appears that other than no CCW and no NFA items, Kansas's state laws aren't too onerous. However, what's the deal with municipalities? I know they were trying to pass a preemption bill this season. Did that come to fruition, or am I going to have to learn a bunch of stupid city ordinances?

Much obliged for any information.
 
I think you have Kansas laws down pretty much ... I do believe the preemption bill passed.

No CCW and no NFA are part of the reasons I left Kansas, where I was born and raised(although to be fair, mountains had a lot more to do with it :p ).


So what part of Kansas you moving to?


Oh, the most important thing for ANYONE who moves to Kansas to learn is that unless you're referring to the state of Arkansas, the word "Arkansas" is not pronounced "Ar-kin-saw" but is pronounced "Ar-Kansas" (this includes streets, the river, and the town).
 
Thanks for the confirmation. I'll be in the area southwest of KC proper (Olathe/Lenexa/Shawnee). Hopefully it will just be a stopover for a couple of years until I can get away to one of the friendly western states.
 
Kansas is not a bad place to live. The people are friendly, and the gun laws are better there then where you're coming from.

The Kansas City area isn't bad ... I lived down in Wichita most of my life. Probably more stuff to do up in KC.


If you're going to be in the KC area, then you have to go here http://www.arthurbryantsbbq.com/

hands down the best BBQ ever!
 
It's the cities you have to look out for...

Possession of a firearm is not illegal under state law as long as it is not concealed upon your person. HOWEVER, possession of a loaded firearm in every incorporated city I am aware of is a misdemeanor. Yes, such laws are wholly unconstituional, just read article 4 of the state constitution. On the bright side, after the school finance issue we may no longer have a supreme court till they get all new justices and it will definately result in the governor not being re-elected. Maybe we can right some previous wrongs.


I.C.
 
Possession of a firearm is not illegal under state law as long as it is not concealed upon your person. HOWEVER, possession of a loaded firearm in every incorporated city I am aware of is a misdemeanor.

It's literally illegal to posess a loaded gun on your property, or illegal to carry such a gun in public?
 
No, you can possess guns on your own private property, loaded, concealed, whatever. You can not possess a loaded firearm on public property, even in your car, in any of the cities. You may carry concealed in your private business also, I always do. Concealed carry used to be a felony. It's now a misdemeanor state law. We are making progress against the corruption and ignorance in government here, but it still pervades every level, even local.

I.C.
 
You can not possess a loaded firearm on public property, even in your car, in any of the cities.

Where do you get this????
unless a city in kansas actually has a law against it Open carry is legal
 
unless a city in kansas actually has a law against it Open carry is legal
And the preemption bill that passed did away with any city's ability to write a law which countermands the state law.

So open carry is again legal in Wichita (for example)
 
I just want to be able to drive out to the farm (Sumner county) from Oklahoma and not have to leave my CCW at home. So, this should now be possible? Do I have to take it out of the holster and display it "open", or do I need to unload it and put it in a case, i.e. "transporting".

Signed,

Confused.
 
The cities have specific ordinances against possession of a deadly weapon. A loaded gun is on the list of what constitutes a deadly weapon. I am somewhat familiar with the recent preemption law you speak of. It was a bad law for a multitude of reasons and does not have the effect you are implying. The cities rely on the authority of a junction city case that went to the supreme court and will continue to do so until such time as the court says otherwise. Given recent developments in school finance that should be when hell freezes.

Open carry IS NOT legal in wichita. If you try it there or any other liberal mecca like lawrence you will go to jail. IANAL, but I do live here and have for many years. When I get more time I'll link the junction city case and the "pre-emption" law for you. FWIW, the junction city case was named in EMERSON by the fifth circuit as an example of judges high on crack.


I.C.
 
or do I need to unload it and put it in a case, i.e. "transporting".

Yes, even after July 1, guns have to be unloaded and in a lockable container.

Kinda sucked, most of us were hoping for a concealed car carry ruling like MO got.

Oh well, baby steps!

But, this did fix the fact that some towns had a NO FIrearms law. Even unloaded locked up guns was still illegal! Hunters enroute to Colorado have been arrested for having rifles in their vehicle, according to local rumors.
 
SmershAgent, I lived in Kansas City for most of my life until I moved to Tulsa 7 years ago. The southwest portion of KC (Olathe/Lenexa/Shawnee) are the extreme leftwing nut jobs. The bad part is that most of the Kansas side of the metro area is that way. If you can get to the western portion of the metro area you should not be too bad. Try to stay west of I-435/7 highway and things should not be too bad. Depends on where you will be working. If you need specifics you can PM me. I myself grew up and lived in KCK.
 
The "Preemption" law...

For the the record, I fought this law tooth and nail despite many people locally and on various forums singing it's praises. This is a horrible law. For those of you who supported it thanks for weakening the rights of your fellow Kansans.


The full text of the law

This IMO is one of the worst parts, section 9.

Sec. 9. K.S.A. 79-5212 is hereby amended to read as follows: 79-
5212. (a) Whenever a taxpayer liable to pay any tax, penalty or interest
assessed pursuant to K.S.A. 79-5205, and amendments thereto, refuses
or neglects to immediately pay the amount due, the director of taxation
may issue one or more warrants for the immediate collection of the
amount due, directed to the sheriff of any county of the state commanding
the sheriff to seize and sell the real and personal property of the taxpayer,
or to seize, appraise and dispose of the firearms of the taxpayer, found
within the sheriff’s county to satisfy the amount specified on the warrant
and the cost of executing the warrant. The director of taxation may also
issue one or more warrants directed to any employee of the department
of revenue commanding the employee to seize and sell the real and personal
property of the taxpayer, or to seize, appraise and dispose of the
firearms of the taxpayer, found anywhere within the state of Kansas to
satisfy the amount specified on the warrant and the cost of executing the
warrant.


Comment: Note this is not a judge, but the director of taxation - an appointed, not elected official, who is issuing this warrant. The warrant is served, your property seixed and maybe even sold, before you have access to any due proccess of law.


A copy of the warrant shall also be mailed to the taxpayer at the
taxpayer’s last known address or served upon the taxpayer in person.
(b) The sheriff or department of revenue employee shall proceed to
execute upon the warrant in the same manner as provided for attachment
orders by K.S.A. 60-706, 60-707 and 60-710, and amendments thereto,
except as otherwise provided herein. In the execution of a warrant issued
to a department of revenue employee, the employee shall have all of the
powers conferred by law upon sheriffs. Any law enforcement officer may
assist in the execution of a warrant if requested to do so by a department
of revenue employee.
(c) No law exempting any goods and chattels, land and tenements
from forced sale under execution shall apply to a seizure and sale, or in
the case of firearms, sale or disposal, under any warrant.
(d) A third party holding funds or other personal property of the
taxpayer shall immediately, or as soon thereafter as possible, after service of the warrant on such third party, deliver such funds or other personal
property to the sheriff or department of revenue employee, who shall
then deliver such to the director of taxation or the director’s designee for
deposit toward the balance due on the taxpayer’s assessment.
(e) The sheriff or department of revenue employee shall make return
of such warrant to the director of taxation within 60 days from the date
of the warrant. If property is seized, then the sheriff or department of
revenue employee shall also make return of such warrant to the clerk of
the district court in the county where the property was seized.
(f) (1) If the taxpayer fails to appeal the assessment as provided by
subsection (b) of K.S.A. 79-5205, and amendments thereto, or if the taxpayer requests a hearing and a final order has been entered by the director of taxation as to the correctness of the assessment, then the sheriff or department of revenue employee shall sell the seized property at public
auction, except that firearms may be sold at public auction or disposed of
as provided in subsection (2)
.

Comment: Note even if you file an appeal to the courts, the director may direct the sherriff to sell your guns anyway.

The provisions of K.S.A. 60-2406, and amendments thereto, shall apply to liens against the property being sold. Notice of the sale of personal property shall be given in accordance with K.S.A. 60-2409, and amendments thereto. Notice of the sale of real property shall be given in accordance with K.S.A. 60-2410, and amendments thereto. The taxpayer shall have the right to redeem real property within a period of six months from the date of the sale.
(2) In the case of seized firearms not sold, the director of taxation shall obtain an appraisal value performed by a federally licensed firearms dealer or an employee thereof. Such value shall be credited against the taxpayer’s outstanding liability. Subsequent to such appraisal and credit against the taxpayer’s outstanding liability, the director shall transfer such firearm or firearms as follows:
(A) If the firearm or firearms have historial significance, the director
may transfer the firearm or firearms to the Kansas state historical society;
(B) the director may transfer the firearm or firearms to the secretary
of wildlife and parks;
(C) the director may transfer the firearm or firearms to the director
of the Kansas bureau of investigation; or
(D) the director may transfer the firearm or firearms to such city or
county law enforcement agency where the firearm was seized.
At least 30 days prior to the transfer of such firearm or firearms, pursuant
to this subsection, the director shall give written notice by mail to
the taxpayer at the taxpayer’s last known address of the appraised value
of such firearm or firearms and the date that the director intends to transfer
such firearm or firearms. The taxpayer may appeal the appraised value
of any such firearm or firearms by filing a written request for a hearing
before the district court in which the tax warrant used to seize such firearm
or firearms was filed. Such request must be filed with the district
court within 15 days after such notice to the taxpayer was mailed by the
director. If no appeal is filed with the district court within 15 days, or if
upon appeal the district court rules against the taxpayer, the director shall
transfer such firearm or firearms.


Comment: Note that this appeal applies only to firearms that were not outright sold at auction but instead transferred to a state agency. In that case if your appeal is not file stamped by the 15th day from the original post mark you're SOL.


(g) The director of taxation may also direct the sheriff or department
of revenue employee to file any warrant issued pursuant to subsection (a)
with the clerk of the district court of any county in Kansas, and thereupon
the clerk shall enter in the appearance docket the name of the taxpayer
mentioned in the warrant, the amount of the tax or portion of it, interest
and penalties for which the warrant is issued and the date such copy is
filed and note the taxpayer’s name in the general index. No fee shall be
charged for such entry. The amount of such warrant shall thereupon
become a lien upon the title to, and interest in, the real property of the
taxpayer located within such county. Thereupon, the director of taxation
shall have the same remedies to collect the amount of the tax, penalty
and interest, as if the state of Kansas had recovered judgment against the
taxpayer, including immediately garnishing the wages or other property
of the taxpayer pursuant to K.S.A. 60-716 et seq., and amendments
thereto. Such remedies shall be in addition to the other collection remedies
provided herein.


Comment: Note that the director is given powers to seize and dispose of your property "as if the state of Kansas had recovered judgment against the
taxpayer". Meaning once again no due process.


(h) The director of taxation shall have the right at any time to issue
alias warrants until the full amount of the tax, penalty and interest is
collected.

Commentary and emphasis mine.


Again, this is a horrible law. I hope you all got what you wanted out of it. There were many on here who sang it's praises. On to the Junction City case. First, to understand the gravity of the court's decision you need to know what the Kansas Constitution's Bill of Rights says about arms.

§ 4. Bear arms; armies. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

Note that the first clause is independent and stands by itself. "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security;" There is nothing confusing or otherwise "grey" about it.


There are essentially two Kansas cases of importance. The first is City of Salina v. Blaksley which is the foundation of the second case which is City of Junction City v. Lee, 532 P.2d 1292 (1975).

The 5th circuit discussed the Salina case in Emerson saying:
We also observe that to interpret state constitutional provisions
protecting the right of the citizen or the people to "bear arms" as
applying only where the individual is actively engaged in actual
military service is necessarily to either (1) contemplate actual
military service for that purpose as including military service other
than that which is ordered or directed by the government; or (2)
construe the constitutional provision as saying no more than that the
citizen has a right to do that which the state orders him to do and
thus neither grants the citizen any right nor in any way restricts the
power of the state. Of course, the latter difficulty is especially
applicable to the theory that such state constitutional provisions
grant rights only to the state. While two (and only two) state courts
(both in the twentieth century) have seemingly adopted that view, those
two decisions do not appear to even recognize, much less attempt to
justify, the anomaly of construing a constitutional declaration of
rights as conferring rights only on the state which had them anyway.
See City of Salina v. Blaksley, 72 Kan. 230, 83 P. 619 (Kan. 1905)


In Lee, the State Supreme Court built on Blaksley. Because Kansas is a home rule state, meaning cities are given the ability to adopt laws that are more stringent than state laws, the court held the cities could ban possesion of firearms because the Kansas Bill of rights refers to a "collective rights model" as stated in Blaksley.

It's all BS.


I.C.


Edit to add:

The preemption some referred to was the referrence to being able to transport unloaded and encased/locked up guns in the storage compartment of your vehicle. Any out of state hunter was already protected by the FOPA. Locals would arguably be protected also, but I was unable to find a referrence to a KS case banning possesion of UNLOADED firearms. There is no specific "preemtion clause" in the law regarding guns in general. If the state passes or amends laws regarding firearms cities are not preempted unless specifically done so in the new law or the law meets the "uniformally applicable" standard in Lee. What that means is that the only people who gained anything from this bill were possibly a minute number of people in certain towns (BFE, population 2) that banned transportation of unloaded/locked firearms, of which I was not able to find and example despite extensive research. Everyone else suffered a severe loss of rights. This bill was a wolf in sheeps clothing from the start and you all fell for it. Shame on you.
 
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insidious_calm, thanks for posting all that ... posting the actual law is always better then a dozen posts full of conjecture discussing what someone thinks the law says ... and thanks for reinforcing my decision to leave Kansas :p
 
Kansas Gun Law

Insidious Calm, I've never had the patience to completely read thru one of these bills. What exact kind of tax are they referring to that they can confiscate personal property to satisfy? I know there is a bill which applies to drug dealers which states they must pay the "drug tax" when marijuana or hard drugs are sold, and if not paid the dealer's property can be confiscated and sold to satisfy the tax debt. But does this bill also include income, sales, witholding and other forms of tax?

In the "for what it is worth department", I have lived, with the exception of military service, all my life in Kansas. I have worked in a lot of the major cities, including KCK, and have never been asked if I'm carrying. I have had a gun rack in my pickup with a .22 in it and have never been stopped. Have associated with LEO's in these cities, hunted with them, shot at the range with them, and the subject of illegal carry has never come up. It;s almost like "Dont ask, Don't tell. But this bill you have described really concerns me.
 
I too lived most of my life except for military service in KCK and know several officers from the force either through being family or family friends. Most of the officers are pro-gun and have no problem with the average citizen owning or carring guns. Of course the crime rate in KCK was getting rather out of control also. I do hope for friends and family that still live there that the people of Kansas get the Nazi governor out of office and get CCW passed within a couple of years. I really hate breaking the law when I go visit family and friends. Kansas is not a bad state. Just has a bunch of bad politicians in office.
 
Reading this thread has me torn inside. I am considering the purchase of a 642 for pocket carry with the understanding that doing so in the state of Kansas is a risk. Unfortunately there are times when not doing so in the KCK area is also a risk.

What do those who are faced with this dilema usually do? :banghead:
 
Taxes...

Jondar, first let me welcome you to the High Road. Make yourself at home and feel free to partake in the wealth of discussion and information found here.


In answer to your question, yes the bill specifically includes INCOME, SALES, and PERSONAL PROPERTY/REAL ESTATE taxes, in addition to drug taxes. This bill was essentially a gun grab. It instituted a method by which that state can take dominion over firearms in order to disarm the public. Guns may be disposed of prior to any court hearing. Even if you win on appeal your guns are gone. The only thing you would recover is their appraised value.

Given the flagrant abuse of "tax laws" by certain JBT government employees when it comes to guns is there any real doubt where this law will take us?



I.C.
 
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