Kart Vote

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1911Tuner

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A little poll here to see if there's sufficient interest.

The GI Springfield that I tried to destroy came through with flying colors, and upgrades have almost turned it into a faithful USGI clone. The one part that's not there is the 2-piece barrel...and it bothers me. Not because the gun is innacurate. It's actually very good for what the gun is and was intended to be. It bothers me because it's there.

Fast-forward to the Kart E-Z Fit that I used to upgrade an old GI Colt that didn't have any real collector value any more...so I figrued what the hell...and
installed one. It turned out to be a real surprise, and the gun is wicked accurate.

Now, as good as the Springer is...I just can't leave well enough alone, and I'm about to talk myself into a barrel upgrade...and I want to use the Kart.
Curiosity plays a role here too. Bill Z posed a question as to how the barrel would have done had I not swaged the rails on the old Colt, lowering the whole top-end 5 or 6 thou. The Springfield's slide to frame numbers are about as good as it gets for a production gun. "Right, Not Tight"...applies
here...so it's a likely candidate for a straight-up retrofit with the Kart, strictly by the instructions. (I don't need the bench bushing, though.)
It'll answer Bill's question and I have no doubt that it will be an improvement
over the 2-piece...and it'll make me sleep better to know that there's a solid barrel resting in the slide.

So...Up to ya'll. Vote YEA or NAY. Do I do it...or do I leave it alone? I'll be offline for about a week during the move, starting next Thursday afternoon.
I'll come back on and check the poll to see what the members say.

Standin' by...
 
Tuner-- Put me down as a Yea.I'd like to see how it works out, in the future I had planned on trying that myself. Nick
 
You have an interesting proposal that could be helpful for many people.

Maybe the rest of us should make a financial contrubution to underwrite the cost ... :D :D :D
 
Defray the Cost

Fuff...I bet if we put that one to a vote, it'd get fillibustered. :D

I'll probably do it anyway... If for no other reason than to make this Springer equal to a real USGI pistol...with modern metallurgy to boot. Add the cost of the barrel to the other upgrades, and I'll have less than 800 bucks in a gun as good as a Rand...and that's a deal in anybody's flea market. :cool:
 
I would say that the "Tuner-modified" Springer is probably equal to a USGI .45 in all important respects - and you rung her out to prove it. If you install a Kart barrel it will probably be equal or better then the original USGI National Match pistols that had fixed sights.

The real point is, that if a manufacturer droped the "loaded" gadgets and used the savings to install better quality components - particularly extractors, sears, disconectors, safety locks and maybe hammers; plus a quality magazine of proven design - they could build a pistol that was as accurate as the European competitors and as reliable as any. All of this at a price-point of $700.00 or lower. They don't, because it isn't what they think the market wants.
 
YEA,

Following the instuctions like a "novice" would tell us whether a "non-gunsmith" can achieve match grade accuracy...or close!
 
I still haven't had the time to get your other questions answered, but I'll make it my mission Tuesday, I imagine Fred and Conrad are taking the holiday.
I'm all for it, give er a whirl.
 
re:

Bill Z...Thanks. No hurry, since I'll be offline for a few days. I'm still of the mind that it was one of those "Slipped through the Cracks" things. Every other dimension and tolerance on the barrel is dead on. Somebody likely just didn't notice the link on that particular barrel.

Bemo...Reasons for NOT doin' it are:

Since I upgraded the gun, it's been in semi-retirement and only carried on occasion. The barrel that's in it is actually pretty good, and as accurate as it needs to be for the intended purpose. The gun runs fine, and fixin' somethin' that ain't broke goes against the grain, even though it would be an
improvement. It's an unnecessary expense to gain an edge in accuracy, since I can only shoot so well. A two-minute shooter with a one-minute gun
won't likely result in me bein' able to take full advantage of the acuracy gain.

Reasons FOR doin' it...

It just bothers me that it's a two-piece barrel...and I want the gun to be equal to a real USGI pistol in every respect that I can arrange...and not just to satisfy my anal-retentiveness. :rolleyes: For one...I wanted to show that
a real pistol can be built at an affordable price for the workin' stiffs of the world...and I wanted to see if the Kart EZ-Fit system was all that it's represented to be. So far, I've been greatly impressed. Now, we'll see how it does when fitted by the book instead of the way I had to fit the last one.
If the membership can benefit from that...we all win! :cool:
 
I think pretty highly of the easy fit system. I've fit two. One on a Springfield 3-gun 1911(with a wicked cool flame job on the slide) and the other on my own 1911 with a Caspian slide.

The advantages of the EZ is so much of the work is done already and it is a relatively straight foward process. I did have difficulties getting the firing pin to smack exacting in the center of the primer. Its still not perfect, but is is accurate.

Tuner, I don't know if you did this, but I took the time and lapped the bushing to fit the slide so I can remove with fingers put has no play. Is that worth the time do you think?

Another question, I had some trouble finding a real good way to remove the material on the lugs. Since I don't have one of the reamer jobbies like on the AGI video, I resorted to the slow method of a fine chainsaw file and a piece of 320 sand paper. It works, but is sort of tedious to get equal contact marks on both lugs(I think I got a dykem buzzz man!). Well sorry to blab on. Kart barrels are cool. Someday I'd really like to try a full gunsmith fit, although getting all the tools for that will be quite an investment.
Ss-
 
Lapped Bushing

Stinky...Yep. Lapping the bushing to the slide is a worthwhile endeavor. Just don't overdo it if you want top accuracy. You'll find that when the bushing is a little too tight when the gun is in battery, the bushing will turn
pretty easily if you pull the slide back a half-inch first. Of course...if you have a FLGR in the gun, it won't work.
 
Tuner,
Would you mind commenting on the fitting procedure? You said that this time you might read the instructions :scrutiny: :rolleyes: Without a leg(oops I meant legs in the last post) guide and cutters, as long as there are equal 'pressure marks' on either side of the legs and lug are we okay? How do you know you got the barrel fit just right?
Thanks a bunch,
Ss :D
 
Comment

Howdy Stinky,

I read'em..I just couldn't/didn't follow'em with that particular fitting because I swaged the frame rails down and refitted the slide. That brings the slide and barrel down a like amount. I wanted zero vertical play between slide and frame, and a T-I-G-H-T fit, so I brought it down a little further than necessary. I got it just a bit tighter than I'm comfortable with, so I lapped
the slide and frame with the JB/CLP slurry a second time to loosen things up a little...and it's just poi-fect! You can feel just a tiny amount of play when it's dry, and zero with light oil in the rails. With the top-end on the gun without the trigger group, it'll cycle in and out of battery by tilting the gun
up and down at a 30-degree angle. Slick as greased goose dookey, and actually one of my better efforts.

I didn't need a lug cutter. I like to have all the depth of engagement that I can get, in addition to equal...or nearly equal...horizontal engagement on the locking lugs. By the time I removed enough of the fitting pads to set the barrel in the center of the breechface, I had all but about a thou of the full lug depth in the vertical plane, and the only adjustment I had to do on the lower lug was light scraping to get both sides bearing evenly on the slidestop pin. Lockup was tight, but no so much that the gun was sluggish going into battery. Happy happy!

I also didn't fit the hood to engage the first locking lug, as is sometimes done. I fitted the hood to the second lug by facing the lug back a wee bit,
so that it had numbers 1 and 2 bearing horizontally and THEN filed the hood
to let the pistol go into battery with just a light snap. At that point, I had
full horizontal engagement on the first two lugs, with the third within .0015
inch of touching...HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!

Okay...The barrel hood had about a half thou press-fit into the slide...I fired the gun a few times with a ammo that was handloaded to slightly over +p pressures, but not proof-level in hopes of seating the first two locking lugs back just enough to pick up the non-bearing lug. It didn't quite make it, but another 1,000 rounds of hardball later, things settled down and seated in, and the #3 lug started to make contact. With all three lugs handling the recoil forces, the gun should live a long and happy life.

Yes...The Kart system allows vertical lockup anywhere on the arc, and no...
with standard-pressure .45 ACP ammo, equal horizontal lockup isn't an absolute necessity, nor is full depth of vertical lockup, nor even a dead-center hit with the firing pin...but the job will last a helluva lot longer if these things are done.

Match-grade accuracy wasn't my end-game, though it did come pretty close to some bullseye guns that I've handled. My ultimate goal was a general upgrade from bone-stock ordnance-spec and dead reliability from the gun...
and a long life. The Kart barrel filled that neatly, and the accuracy was
better than I had expected. I was very impressed with the overall quality
and close tolerances of the Kart. There was less than .0002 inch difference in the lug thickness, and the locations were within that amount of nominal blueprint specs for the slide, suggesting that particular barrel would work...or could easily be made to work...in just about any slide that was anywhere close to spec.

Again...It's not a full hard-fit match barrel, nor do I think that it was meant to be. It is a very good alternative to a hard-fit for those who want to
upgrade without going to the expense of buying the equipment just to do one or two pistols...well worth the money and the effort.

'Zat help? :cool:
 
Kart barrels

We have to remember that les Baer uses Kart barrels in his 1911's & my LBC is the most accurate 1911 that I've ever fired. More so than Barsto & Ed Brown barrels.
 
My friend, I have never known you to leave well-enough alone, so why start now? ;)

Be well!
 
I'm not sure how you are set up for tools Tuner, but why not a Kart NM fit barrrel that requires lower lug fitting? Just curious.

But anyway, upgrade that bad boy. What's better on the hood of a barrel than "Kart"?

BTW, I'm not sure where you purchased your last one, but if you buy through Gil Hebard Guns they give you 10% off, even if they have to order it from Kart. That's where I buy all of my Kart barrels.
 
Kart, 'cause you'll wonder about it until you do, and it'll keep you outta trouble for a day or two, maybe.
 
I would like a Kart in your pistol and mine, including the rest of your upgrades. PM me when ya get settled. I'm a newbie here but have done lots of reading and am interested in your services.
 
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