mljdeckard
Member
Just because we keep the chamber empty doesn't mean we plan on scaring the bad guy by racking the slide.
Keeping a Round Chambered
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Snarlingiron
Member
A good point. I have had a house fire. My wife kept trying to go back into the house to retrieve a kitty cat. The Fire Captain finally took her by the arm, crossed the street told her to sit on the curb and if she got up from the curb he would arrest her for interfering with the firefighters.
Once those guys arrive, it isn't your house anymore until they clear it and leave.
See my comments above about projecting your situation onto everyone else.It is hard for me to imagine a situation in which I would be able to put my shotgun into use but not have time to drop the bolt on it (it take about the same time as disengaging the safety would). Unless you keep the thing in bed with you or are carrying it around slung there is already a delay in the deployment. This is part of why the same people that would never consider having a CCW empty chamber don't have an issue with the HD longun having a loaded mag but an empty chamber.
For someone to get into my bedroom they have to get past the locked doors and windows, which are alarmed as well. If the alarm for whatever reason did not wake me, I have a large dog that sleeps downstairs. I have a second locking door into my bedroom. Somewhere in the time I get woken and the time that individual could get to my room I think I would have time to drop the bolt on my gun. Beyond that I always have a handgun at arms length. During the day it is holstered and on my person. At night it is within arms reach. If someone kicks the door in during the middle of the day the chambered shotgun in the other room might be of no use anyhow.
If one has locked doors, an alarm, a dog (a rather large one), and a second locking steel door I don't think that the empty chamber will be a huge problem.
As Yogi Berrra once said predictions are very hard to make, especially about the future. It might or it might not. No one can say, which is why you cannot not rely on it. Wanting to rack is probably not a good reason to keep it chamber empty (you could rack a loaded gun too). Did anyone who said they keep an empty chamber suggest that was the reason why they did so? There might be some other valid reasons however. Re-read the thread. My SG is not even a pump gun for what its worth.
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TomADC
Member
I keep my 870 cocked and locked on a empty chamber with the safety on. I figure if I get up in the middle of the night, I have to be alert enough to either hit the slide release and jack a round in the chamber or safety off pull trigger on empty chamber, cycle slide to get it in battery.
Snarlingiron
Member
So, you see we all have different situations. My wife is an extremely sound sleeper, and over the last couple of years my hearing has become quite diminished. It is very likely that someone could be in my face by the time I'm aware that there is a problem.
Understand that I am not trying to suggest that anyone do anything. I am just relating what I do. Your situation is probably different, and your comfort zone most likely is too.
TomADC
Member
Snarlingiron you need to have two mini dachshunds sleep in your bedroom, they only bark when something requires attention
Snarlington, I with you. You do what works for your situation. I just wish the person who posted chambered was "the only way to go"
would realize that.
I too think about this possibility, and it is why I have a handgun within reach. I figure it would be easier to deploy in such a situation than the long gun anyhow.
would realize that.
I too think about this possibility, and it is why I have a handgun within reach. I figure it would be easier to deploy in such a situation than the long gun anyhow.
gearchecker
Member
If you truly want it set up for HD, it needs to be cocked and locked.
Racking a round in the presence of another person in some states be considered an act of attempted murder.
There have been cases intruders leaving the home they brkoe into after hearing a round getting racked, and then calling the LEO's to report that the homeowner racked a round from outside of the home at them. Even though it never happened that way. The LEO's show up and the homeowner has a shotgun with a round chambered and gets hauled away and charged with attempted murder. If you don't rack the round into shotgun who knows you even had the intent to use it. They never heard you.
Racking a round in the presence of another person in some states be considered an act of attempted murder.
There have been cases intruders leaving the home they brkoe into after hearing a round getting racked, and then calling the LEO's to report that the homeowner racked a round from outside of the home at them. Even though it never happened that way. The LEO's show up and the homeowner has a shotgun with a round chambered and gets hauled away and charged with attempted murder. If you don't rack the round into shotgun who knows you even had the intent to use it. They never heard you.
If this were true (cases?), there sure would need to be some other dispositive facts. Other wise there would be a whole lot of bird hunters in jail. The racking alone would not be enough. Thus if it is a situation where you could shoot or point your loaded gun at them racking is unlikely to be a problem one would think. If you want to cite some applicable case law I would be interested in reading it.
Under your hypothetical if I kept it chambered and the BG saw me/it and ran away and called the cops making the same claim, I would still be in hot water since I have a chambered shotgun, no? Is it unimaginable they guy might fabricate such a tale?
If the person truly broke in there is likely going to be signs of forced entry. This will not bode well for the BG and his fabricated version of events.
There is another point however. If someone breaks in (or any other situation where you need to wield a gun) you need to call the cops ASAP. I would dial 911 before I went looking for the BG (I'm not going to go look for him). I'd congregate the family, barricade and call 911.
In short the buglar will have a hard case if he really broke in. Lets think it through Usually these people have past records the last chap who broke into my house was a 2 time felon and on parole he is happily back in prison now. That might not come up in burglary trial but it would certainly be something the cops and a DA would look at. It is more menaingful when juxtaposed against my standing in society. How did he get in the house, are there signs of forced entry. This makes the idea I racked my shotgun at him outside a harder sell. One, its not what the cops are worried about two there is clear evidence to support my version of events that he was indeed in my home. I'll be on the horn with 911 before he will in all likely hood, that counts for something. Further I don't live in NY, Chi, CA, or any other place where DAs judges and juries have crazy ideas about HD and guns.
I'd love to see the case law. There is going to have to be some other facts in there. That or simply a DA and court very hostile to guns.
mljdeckard
Member
I'm ringing the bull bell on that one. Which states?
76shuvlinoff
Member
you shouldn't be muzzling yourself if you store it muzzle down
"Even the fire department?"
No, not even the fire department. My circumstances are unusual, not the norm, so quick assumptions may not apply. In this case there is no chance of fire fighters as such being either in a situation of danger or even fighting a fire inside the structure. Can't happen.
My second option given may be better for some people, or neither one as the case may be. Just descriptions of my personal choices.
No, not even the fire department. My circumstances are unusual, not the norm, so quick assumptions may not apply. In this case there is no chance of fire fighters as such being either in a situation of danger or even fighting a fire inside the structure. Can't happen.
My second option given may be better for some people, or neither one as the case may be. Just descriptions of my personal choices.
I have to admit that my curiosity is piqued. I am having a hard time imagining a place where there is zero chance a fireman would ever need/be able to go yet there is danger enough of someone or something getting in there that might require use of a shotgun. The best I can come up with is a very rural residence. I would classify that as there being extremely low odds of a firefighter being there not an utter impossibility. Not that it really matters. Like I said it just made me curious.
mcdonl
Member
This is a different "locked and loaded thread...." I am of the mind set that an unloaded gun is a paper weight. So, my SD handgun has one in the chamber in my night stand. It is a DAO pistol.
Now, I am also not a fan of the warning shot people, but I do feel as though the cycling of a pump action shotgun is an effective deterrent and is one of the reasons that I keep the tube full, but chamber empty.
Now, I am also not a fan of the warning shot people, but I do feel as though the cycling of a pump action shotgun is an effective deterrent and is one of the reasons that I keep the tube full, but chamber empty.
RSVP2RIP
Member
New to the thread but RCMODEL brings up an important item. Cookoff in a fire. Can he honestly say that he keeps all his firearms in condition 2? It may be his choice but my father's house burnt down a few years ago and he was lucky enough that the guns only suffered smoke and water damage, not heat. Finish gone, good to shoot, too bad for the 20 ga Superposed I keep the shotgun cond. 2 because the saftey is only good on the trigger and the Glock/Kahr/High Power cond. 1. High Power I feel is safe enough because it has a half cock notch, which will catch a broken sear nose forced from full cock and hold it.
I keep the shotgun cond. 2 because the saftey is only good on the trigger and the Glock/Kahr/High Power cond. 1. High Power I feel is safe enough because it has a half cock notch, which will catch a broken sear nose forced from full cock and hold it.mcdonl
Member
I agree M1911... thats why I keep it with an empty chamber... the mossy 500 that is...
Gunfighter123
Member
As I already posted ---- IF AND WHEN you SEE a nutcase in your home -- it takes less then 1/4--1/2 of a second to rack the slide and pull the trigger !!! If you already have the SG cocked -- you have 1/2 a second less time to really ID if it is a true life threat or a drunk entering the wrong house thinking it is theirs etc.
Actually, the fire department can, and will, gain access. And if you interfere, you will be taken away in handcuffs.
Assuming of course this area is pertainable to the situation (it is inside your house or attached). If not, you're good to go.
I am a fire fighter in NY and we've gotten automatic alarms where the home owner said it was a mistake and they wouldn't let us in. Guess what. She was placed in the back of a police car until we were finished.
Why? What happens if "that place that no one but you can enter" is smoldering or has some form of fire or ignition in it? The FD comes and checks the place out, and doesn't check that room, and then leaves. 2 hours later your house is fully involved and guess who's at fault?
In an emergency situation, we have every right to search where needed, and we will, whether you like it or not.
Moving on, my pump shotgun has the mag tube loaded and chamber empty, safety off.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I'm thinking this guy owns Oussama Ben Laden's cave.
rc
inSight-NEO
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For the shotgun, I never keep a round in the chamber. Rather, I keep the action "unlocked," dummy round in the chamber, mag tube loaded and more often than not, the safety engaged. Essentially, I guess you could call this "cruiser ready" or a modification thereof.
Now, for handguns, sometimes I may keep a round in the chamber. But, only with certain guns at specific times.
Now, for handguns, sometimes I may keep a round in the chamber. But, only with certain guns at specific times.
Dustin4185
Member
I use the same setup as my patrol truck (game warden). I bought a tuffloc shotgun rack and installed it with lag bolts in the closet. You can get a transformer at radio shack to convert 110v to 12 vdc. Just wire it in like the manufacturer says (the unlock button is hidden in night stand). In our trucks we leave the chamber empty, slide back, and lock on the upper part of the barrel/magazine tube. This allows you to load what you need directly into the chamber. The rack also has a trigger guard that we adjust to cover the ejection port to keep large foreign objects out of the chamber.
bigalexe
Member
A comment on Racking a Pump gun.
It was once stated to me and I completely agree that racking a pump doesn't necessarily scare a bad guy but it does clear things up a little bit. Most people in a right frame of mind have some idea what the sound of a shotgun racking is and will recognize it if they hear it. Thus if a burglar is in your house and they hear that slide their are going to be an infinite number of possible reactions, however the one that matters is that if the guy is still in your house burglarizing you after clearly hearing that sound then it can probably be safely assumed that the criminal is either a violent criminal intent on harming you, or that the criminal is in a non-stable state of mind and therefore should be handled as such.
It was once stated to me and I completely agree that racking a pump doesn't necessarily scare a bad guy but it does clear things up a little bit. Most people in a right frame of mind have some idea what the sound of a shotgun racking is and will recognize it if they hear it. Thus if a burglar is in your house and they hear that slide their are going to be an infinite number of possible reactions, however the one that matters is that if the guy is still in your house burglarizing you after clearly hearing that sound then it can probably be safely assumed that the criminal is either a violent criminal intent on harming you, or that the criminal is in a non-stable state of mind and therefore should be handled as such.
I keep the sporting gun I use for HD (12ga. 870) chamber empty, mag full, safety on (I don't at the moment have a dedicated HD weapon). I've given some thought to keeping a round chambered, but I'm just not comfortable with it for a few reasons, particularly on a shotgun. That's just me, and I wouldn't presume to tell anybody else what to do, but that's the way I've always done it, and that's what what my muscles expect to find when I pick up one of my guns. I've also thought about leaving the chamber empty and dropping the hammer so the slide stays unlocked, but I really don't want to get into the habit of pulling the trigger every time I store the gun, plus I like having the slide locked for easy everyday handling. I'm used to the gun to the point that I can have it unlocked, racked, shouldered, off safe, and on target pretty darn fast. As far as the noise of working the slide goes, I really don't worry about it. My house is small enough, anybody with ill intent is going to figure out where I am quick enough anyway. If they round the corner to my bedroom, it won't much matter one way or the other...
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