Keith's Preference In Sixguns

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Mr. Mosin

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Why did Elmer Keith prefer the '73 pattern Colt over a double action wheelgun ? Did they just *fit* him, is it what he bit his teeth on and was comfortable with, what ? I know he tried both the Colt Gov't and Browning HP, and they both choked in the Texas dust. Was it because of imminent reliability ?
 
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Why did Elmer Keith prefer the '73 pattern Colt over a double action wheelgun ? Did they just *fit* him, is it what he bit his teeth on and was comfortable with, what ? I know he tried both the Colt Gov't and Browning HP, and they both choked in the Texas dust. Was it because of imminent reliability ?
It been many years since I read “Hell, I Was There” but I don’t recall Elmer spending much time in TX? He was from MO and moved to MT and ID as I recall.

But I do remember he sure liked experimenting with heavy loads and the stout single action guns made sense. He also was a pretty hard core cowboy…

ETA:

but he clearly had some DA revolvers:
 
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Tough, durable, far better of a fighting revolver (yes, even today) than some give it credit for. No double action to contend with, just a crisp single. Much simpler design and easy to work on oneself in many scenarios. I imagine the thumb busters would be more dust resistant.

Go to a Cowboy match to see what a proper SAA or Ruger single can be pushed to do. They make a VERY effective fighting pistol even to this very day IF you practice, train, and put in the attention to detail.
 
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Why did Elmer Keith prefer the '73 pattern Colt over a double action wheelgun ? Did they just *fit* him, is it what he bit his teeth on and was comfortable with, what ? I know he tried both the Colt Gov't and Browning HP, and they both choked in the Texas dust. Was it because of imminent reliability ?

Keith was a product of his times and his environment. Read his books, or summarized biographies. Such as: MISTER MAGNUM – ELMER KEITH Keith did his early ranching, horse riding/cowpunching, and hunting out in the middle of no where. People today cannot imagine a world without paved roads, electricity, no indoor plumbing, integrated heating or A/C. But that was the times in 1920. Back then, you wanted to get between point A and B, it was by foot, horse, maybe someone had a vehicle, and train. Train stations linked the country together, not interstates, train travel was the primary mode of movement between towns. If it was not in the local country store, then you had to find it in a catalog. USPS loaded everything up on rail, it arrived in town in a rail car, was taken to the Post Office, and pretty much stayed there till you picked it up. Keith would have been buying the firearms that were available, and what he could afford. People today look at prices from back then and think things cheap. Inflation has ruined our ability to compare prices without an inflation calculator, but if your weekly wage was $4.00, then this was was expensive

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I have not scanned the Sears Colt SAA ad, but it was more than these top break revolvers.

Keith was buying used pistols that were available, and for his job, a Colt SAA was what everyone else was using (mostly) and it was a fine secondary weapon, for ranching.

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You can look at pictures of Cowpokes back in the 1920's, few are carrying anything more lethal than a knife. Keith probably shot more angry cows, coyotes, game animals, based on his writings, than anything else, as a ranch hand. The Colt SAA was compact, light, powerful. A Colt SAA can break a surprising number of parts, and as long as that hammer and hammer spring function, you can rotate the cylinder, (by hand if need be) thumb the hammer back, and it will go bang once the hammer is released. Ignition was reliable due to the massive hammer and heavy mainspring. That is important in the cold and rain. The calibers that were available, Keith gave the factory 45 LC high marks. The black powder load was actually more powerful than the smokeless, from what I have read, the blackpowder load would push a 250/255 lead about 1000 fps. That is pretty good for the era.

It takes work to shoot your self with a Colt, as long as you have an empty under the hammer, there were lots of good holster designs for Colt SAA's, and Keith saved his life many times with a Colt. The gunfights of the era were short, and typically just between a few rascals in bars. There was not a big difference in firepower between a six shooter and a seven shot 1911, and I don't know how a civilian would acquire a 1911. If he did, it would be much more expensive than a used, black power Colt SAA.

The Colt was obsolete as a military weapon, by the late 1880's, 1890's. In his book, "Cooper on Handguns", Jeff Cooper alluded to a "current gunwriter" who recommended the Colt SAA as a combat weapon, and how he, Jeff Cooper, found it was a horrible weapon to load in the dark, with angry Japanese with pointy things near by.

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Jeff's experience proved to him the 1911 as a combat pistol was the way to go. Keith never got messed up in a major shooting war. Keith was well aware of brawls between bullies, drunks, and the occasional shoot out between a Cop and Crook.

Once Keith became an elder statesman, he was very familiar with the 1911, and in the early 80's, based on his review of a Heckler and Koch pistol, the H&K could not hold a candle to the 1911. But he never lost his faith in the Colt SAA as a dependable, reliable sidearm.
 
Keith liked powerful big bores and figured, for much of his life, that the hot loaded .44 Special was the best available. The triple lock and model of 1926 were both available in .44 Special but neither was a great choice for his powerful handloads. The SAA was. When D.A. revolvers strong enough for those loads became available in the 1950s he used them quite a bit, and when the .44 Magnum Model 29 double action came out in 1956 or so, they became his daily wear guns until his incapacitating stroke in 1981.

<edit> I don't know if Keith spent significant time in Texas. He was born in Missouri and spent most of his life in Oregon and Idaho.
 
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the triple lock came out in 1907: https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/smith-wessons-famous-triple-lock/138257 this is a nice article by bart skelton. n frames were stout and i am sure someone got around to heavy loading them when they came out in 1907 (i think elmer was eight and still in missouri at that time).

murf

Keith did use the triple lock, but noted that they were made of fairly primitive steel, and most were not heat treated. Elmer was loading the .44 Special with 250 grain bullets at 1200 fps - way beyond SAAMI limits - and he did use them in the triple lock, but felt it was abusive to the gun. (And when his primary triple lock was sold in 2015 it was noted that the gun was badly out of time). In Sixguns, Keith wrote "The rear end of the barrel and the cylinder steel of the old Triple-Lock are not as strong as in the present 1950 Model Target S&W .44 caliber...", which is one of the reasons he stuck with his SAA until the 1950s.
 
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It been many years since I read “Hell, I Was There” but I don’t recall Elmer spending much time in TX? He was from MO and moved to MT and ID as I recall.

But I do remember he sure liked experimenting with heavy loads and the stout single action guns made sense. He also was a pretty hard core cowboy…

ETA:

but he clearly had some DA revolvers:
It's the pipe that does it. You gotta figure any man who can wrangle a pair of .44's without losing his grip on the pipe stem or dumping his hot box probably has done this before and doesn't mind doing it again. Don't have to wonder if he'll shoot.
 
Keith was a product of his times and his environment. Read his books, or summarized biographies. Such as: MISTER MAGNUM – ELMER KEITH Keith did his early ranching, horse riding/cowpunching, and hunting out in the middle of no where. People today cannot imagine a world without paved roads, electricity, no indoor plumbing, integrated heating or A/C. But that was the times in 1920. Back then, you wanted to get between point A and B, it was by foot, horse, maybe someone had a vehicle, and train. Train stations linked the country together, not interstates, train travel was the primary mode of movement between towns. If it was not in the local country store, then you had to find it in a catalog. USPS loaded everything up on rail, it arrived in town in a rail car, was taken to the Post Office, and pretty much stayed there till you picked it up. Keith would have been buying the firearms that were available, and what he could afford. People today look at prices from back then and think things cheap. Inflation has ruined our ability to compare prices without an inflation calculator, but if your weekly wage was $4.00, then this was was expensive

View attachment 1015710 One thing everyone forgets Keith spent WWII at a US Army Arsenal on the west coast getting 1911's in the best mechanical trim before going off to war in the pacific.



I have not scanned the Sears Colt SAA ad, but it was more than these top break revolvers.

Keith was buying used pistols that were available, and for his job, a Colt SAA was what everyone else was using (mostly) and it was a fine secondary weapon, for ranching.

View attachment 1015711

You can look at pictures of Cowpokes back in the 1920's, few are carrying anything more lethal than a knife. Keith probably shot more angry cows, coyotes, game animals, based on his writings, than anything else, as a ranch hand. The Colt SAA was compact, light, powerful. A Colt SAA can break a surprising number of parts, and as long as that hammer and hammer spring function, you can rotate the cylinder, (by hand if need be) thumb the hammer back, and it will go bang once the hammer is released. Ignition was reliable due to the massive hammer and heavy mainspring. That is important in the cold and rain. The calibers that were available, Keith gave the factory 45 LC high marks. The black powder load was actually more powerful than the smokeless, from what I have read, the blackpowder load would push a 250/255 lead about 1000 fps. That is pretty good for the era.

It takes work to shoot your self with a Colt, as long as you have an empty under the hammer, there were lots of good holster designs for Colt SAA's, and Keith saved his life many times with a Colt. The gunfights of the era were short, and typically just between a few rascals in bars. There was not a big difference in firepower between a six shooter and a seven shot 1911, and I don't know how a civilian would acquire a 1911. If he did, it would be much more expensive than a used, black power Colt SAA.

The Colt was obsolete as a military weapon, by the late 1880's, 1890's. In his book, "Cooper on Handguns", Jeff Cooper alluded to a "current gunwriter" who recommended the Colt SAA as a combat weapon, and how he, Jeff Cooper, found it was a horrible weapon to load in the dark, with angry Japanese with pointy things near by.

View attachment 1015712

Jeff's experience proved to him the 1911 as a combat pistol was the way to go. Keith never got messed up in a major shooting war. Keith was well aware of brawls between bullies, drunks, and the occasional shoot out between a Cop and Crook.

Once Keith became an elder statesman, he was very familiar with the 1911, and in the early 80's, based on his review of a Heckler and Koch pistol, the H&K could not hold a candle to the 1911. But he never lost his faith in the Colt SAA as a dependable, reliable sidearm.
 
Then they were wannabe cowpokes........

The Montana Memory Project has an amazing number of pictures. Of course, the system is cumbersome and you have to spend a lot of time to find anything. But I more or less found Cowboy pictures from the WW1 period to mid 1925's, which would have been when Keith was working in the saddle.

Spend enough time and you find guys with rifles, pistols are rarer.But most are of unarmed people. The Indian wars are over, so you have to ask, why are you carrying a gun to work? Whom do you plan to kill in the bunk house tonight?

It was likely that those who ran the Ranch, they would probably only allow the Supervisor 24/7 firearm carry. In the bunk house would be a bunch of young men, crowded together, getting on each others nerves, with pranksters in the mix. If there was no external Indian threat, there was no need for anyone but the line Supervisor to be carrying firearms. You can follow the logic : "You want to work, fine. You want to shoot someone, find another Ranch to work at." I am sure to keep homicides down, handguns would be stored at the big house and any Ranch hand would need a good reason to gain possession during work hours,

Here are a few of the pictures I saw:

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Some real desperadoes here. Shotgun, rimfire rifle, piece of wood?, and lever action.

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Has to be before prohibition, or all the pard's would be looking sad.

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Spend time at here and look at early 20th century America

https://www.mtmemory.org
 

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It was a rough old world in them days and yet people could still smile and laugh. I have always had SO MUCH respect for my Grandfather and Grandmother. Thank you for posting those images.

Glad to do it, and happy that pictures of real people from the period are available to the public. I love the stoic, good natured humor of those old timers about small town, rural, America. .

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Keith did use the triple lock, but noted that they were made of fairly primitive steel, and most were not heat treated. Elmer was loading the .44 Special with 250 grain bullets at 1200 fps - way beyond SAAMI limits - and he did use them in the triple lock, but felt it was abusive to the gun. (And when his primary triple lock was sold in 2015 it was noted that the gun was badly out of time). In Sixguns, Keith wrote "The rear end of the barrel and the cylinder steel of the old Triple-Lock are not as strong as in the present 1950 Model Target S&W .44 caliber...", which is one of the reasons he stuck with his SAA until the 1950s.
here is some more info on the hand ejector revolvers penned by the duke: https://gunsmagazine.com/guns/handguns/smith-wessons-hand-ejector-2nd-model/

if the second model was chambered in 45 acp, that model cylinder could take a little hotrodding. production of the second model started in 1915 when keith was 16 so he had a few choices in handguns for his experiments when he got older.

murf
 
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