Keith's Preference In Sixguns

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I would like to add, I think Elmer would agree with what I said above. He was a practical man if nothing else, and reading his works has taught me that while it's important to choose the "right tool for the job", a person also has to make the best of what he has when the circumstances require.

Mac
 
MacAR said:
What sidearm we choose to do so with is up to us.
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Certainly.

But to say "it works" is meaningless, if we are speaking of defensive use. We can only know what has worked if we have used it, and then, only that it did work on that occasion.

And by far, the preponderance of the evidence is that today, a high-cap service auto (with higher capacity than the one I carry) is, for SD, far superior to any revolver, assuming the user is trained. To insist otherwise is a form of denial, in the nexus of fantasyland and frontierland.

For a working rancher in Idaho in the 1930s, different considerations applied, and the guns that could be had were different. Colt still listed the SAA. The first large capacity semi-auto did not come into being until 1935, and it was not chambered for a load that many ranchers would likely choose.

Elmer Keith preferred revolvers--big bore revolvers--for work, for sport, and for load development.

An interesting aside: When I was new to hand-gunning, most of my friends were looking at the Colt .45 "Government Model", or at DA revolvers. I decided I wanted a Smith and Wesson Combat Masterpiece revolver. However, military demand made it unavailable at the time.

I ended up buying a 9mm Smith and Wesson Model 39 in 1966.

I did so at the strong recommendation of a very well known gun-writer--Elmer Keith himself, who had written about it in Sixguns by Keith.

Today, for CC, I carry a semi-auto. I have never had to use it, but I have trained with it. I do not contend that it is the best choice, but I can carry it all day and I can shoot it.

If recreational hand-gunning were still something that I could reasonably do, I would not use the semi-auto. I would use a belt revolver.

Can't say what kind. Maybe a .44 Triple Lock. Maybe a New Vaquero.

But not with loads that would impress Elmer.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Not this again... for everything holy, let it rest.
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I do have a suggestion: from here on out, any time someone is assailed for carrying the "wrong" gun, the reply should be "I have never had to use it, but I have trained with it. I do not contend that it is the best choice, but I can carry it all day and I can shoot it."
 
.38 Special said:
I do have a suggestion, though: from here on out, any time someone is assailed for carrying the "wrong" gun, the reply should be "I have never had to use it, but I have trained with it. I do not contend that it is the best choice, but I can carry it all day and I can shoot it."
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That's about the best that one can say.

Of course, there are people who, for whatever reason, carry firearms that would not be permitted in realistic defensive pistol training classes, and those that few people would be able to use effectively in the training drills.

That does not mean that one should leave it at home if it is all one has.
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
Tough, durable, far better of a fighting revolver (yes, even today) than some give it credit for. No double action to contend with, just a crisp single. Much simpler design and easy to work on oneself in many scenarios. I imagine the thumb busters would be more dust resistant.

Go to a Cowboy match to see what a proper SAA or Ruger single can be pushed to do. They make a VERY effective fighting pistol even to this very day IF you practice, train, and put in the attention to detail.
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I would have to watch one of those matches. I had a couple single six's over the years, I just have a hard time seeing SAO being a "better" fighting gun. Not to take away from the fact that in trained hands, it can be a formidable tool, just as it was when SAO was the only game in town.....
 
In 1956 we saw Elmer shooting double action S&W .44 revolvers.

For "fighting", the DA, swing-out cylinder, simultaneous extraction revolver had replaced the SAA almost everywhere, and the semi-auto had replaced revolvers in most militaries. Frankly, I doubt that Elmer cared about that at all.

I think he liked being able to shoot the .44 Magnum.

Decades before, after the Model 1911 had become standard issue, a US Army lieutenant who insisted on carrying the SAA used one in combat. When his gun ran dry, he was almost killed.

From then on, George Patton carried two sidearms.
 
Kleanbore said:
But to say "it works" is meaningless, if we are speaking of defensive use. We can only know what has worked if we have used it, and then, only that it did work on that occasion.
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Oh, I quite agree. It has been my meager experience that on no fewer than three occasions, a Single Action Army (in caliber 32-20, no less) saved me from certain bodily harm and those that faced will not be so keen to face another. However, during those three incidents, had I had a Hi-cap service pistol (and been TRAINED to use it), you can bet your backside I'd have used it.

Kleanbore said:
And by far, the preponderance of the evidence is that today, a high-cap service auto (with higher capacity than the one I carry) is, for SD, far superior to any revolver, assuming the user is trained. To insist otherwise is a form of denial, in the nexus of fantasyland and frontierland.
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I will not deny that most of today's pistols are far superior to the thumb-busters of yore, but for my current use and my use only, I prefer them to all others, with the exception of the 1911. So far, in the day-to-day use on the farm, they have served me well in the dispatch of critters and varmints that would do me or mine a nasty turn. But I freely admit that I don't carry a gun every day, either. Were I so inclined, that gun would likely be at least a 38 snub, but more likely a compact auto. I would never recommend someone use a SAA for a defensive weapon, unless that is the only handgun they had. However, I feel we forget the real purpose of the handgun sometimes. In my mind, handguns are tools to get me to my rifle.

Kleanbore said:
From then on, George Patton carried two sidearms.
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Heck, can you blame him? If nothing else, Georgie had style. I kid, of course, but honestly after what happened to him in Mexico, I would've carried as many as I could have!

DustyGmt said:
I would have to watch one of those matches. I had a couple single six's over the years,
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Yes, you really should... those guys and gals really know their stuff and are excellent. However, you don't get quite get the whole experience with CAS; no one there is shooting back at you! Oh, and while I like (and own) a Single Six, it has nothing on a well-tuned SAA.

Mac
 
MacAR said:
f...or my current use and my use only, I prefer them to all others, with the exception of the 1911. So far, in the day-to-day use on the farm, they have served me well in the dispatch of critters and varmints that would do me or mine a nasty turn. But I freely admit that I don't carry a gun every day, either. .
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I can certainly relate to that.

If I spent my days on a farm, I would probably choose my 5" 686+.

But a single action would be fine.
 
MacAR said:
I don't care who you are, that's pretty damn neat right there. Hell, I wanna go!

Mac
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Yep. I'd have to buy a centerfire levergun though. Like I need an excuse...

Gunsite did at one point offer a course dedicated entirely to single action revolvers. I believe it was taught primarily by Il Ling New, although Ed Head may have had a role - it's an old and hazy memory. Il Ling New did create a series on the topic with Ruger, which can be viewed on YouTube.

 
...................... my friends were looking at the Colt .45 "Government Model",...........................[/QUOTE]

Thank you for using that nomenclature. One of my pet peeves is that every .45 Automatic, or any caliber for that matter, is a "Model 1911."

Bob Wright
 
MacAR said:
I don't care who you are, that's pretty damn neat right there. Hell, I wanna go!

Mac
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Why not? Got my first single action at 13, a .357 RBH, and my first lever-gun at 15, a Marlin 94, also in .357. Loaded big, heavy, Keith-style WFN SWC's 150-170gr. and on up to 200gr using the Lyman 358430 mold with big charges of Unique and Red Dot. That 200 grain round nose thumps hard on hogs and whitetails at close range. Once you get the hang of point shooting a moving body, it gets to be second nature. I figure if I can still spot the hog in the uinderbrush and palmettos, draw and hit him a deadly blow before he uses those tusks to calf-sweep me, i'm doing okay. If the pig ever wins. it means I got too slow.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
If the pig ever wins. it means I got too slow.
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That's a point a lot of folks don't think about, because a critter can kill you just as fast as man can. Sorta why I'm partial to the 357 magnum; it'll pretty well stop anything around here that needs stopping. I have to admit, that when helping the buddies trail up wounded pigs, I like a short barreled automatic shotgun in my hands rather than a rifle or handgun. Five rounds of #4 buck is pretty darn comforting in the cane brakes and thickets around here.

Mac
 
MacAR said:
Five rounds of #4 buck is pretty darn comforting in the cane brakes and thickets around here.

Mac
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It sure is! Well, its like I said before, Mr. Keith was a lawman by profession, not a railroad conductor or accountant or farmer... as such he tended to deal with the worst of humanity for a living - criminals, judges, lawyers - you know, the real dregs of society. I'm not armed for shooting through the doors of a steel-bodied, '34 Ford V8 like he was. Don't see the call, frankly. But a 200 pound porker with a real mad on for me disturbing his wooing of the lady sows... well, you might as well be taking on a Tiger Tank with a popgun if all you've gots one of those little plastifantastix 9mm pocket rockets. Mr. Pig gonna have him some Long Pig for dinner. ;)
 
Jim Watson said:
?
I don't recall Elmer ever saying anything about being a sworn officer.
He did a bit of farming and ranching, a good bit of hunting guiding, and gunzine writing.
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Maybe I'm confusing him with Bill Jordan?

Probably.

That would explain why those heavy flat nose bullets are so good for hunting. They hit like a freight train and punch through good for a blood trail.
 
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