Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by max popenker, Apr 16, 2007.
So what is the MSRP expected to be?
The MSRP I heard at SHOT was $2000/18", $2500/24", and $3000/32".
Only concern I have about the design is if there is a feed, extract, or mis loading of the empty case into the ejection chute, the gun looks like it will have to be disassembled to clear the problem. No pull the bolt back, tilt the gun, and let the offending problem drop out.
Eek, guess I'll get a steyr scout. $1700+ is downright cheap by comparison.
Don't forget. Kel-tecs typically sell at much below their MSRP.
However, the demand for this rifle is likely to be high.
The real issue (not taking into account possible anti-gun legislation), is who is really gonna want to buy a 2k rifle when you can still buy HK or FAL design for much less.
Who is going to buy it when you can buy a .308 caliber Saiga (and even have a company like Tromix, or do it yourself- make it a "battle rifle" with all the Battle rifle accesories, although I don't find them particularly necessary).
I plan on getting one if I have the money when they come out. And, I think it's a fantastic SHTF concept weapon. (.308 power in a bullpup package is hard to beat), but I don't think it'll have nearly as good sales as alot of other available weapons if the price is floating above $1000.
Now, if Kel0Tec could do it for under $1000, they would own the market. But, I don't know that they can.
As of Sept 2007, the pricing that was quoted to me on a call to Kel-Tec was MSRP $1500 for the target version. Factoring actual sell price at 30% below MSRP and further reductions for the shorter barrel lengths, The carbine model looks to be sub $1000.
KelTec is not known for making robust, long lasting firearms. A .308 with all that polymer housing?.......I'll wait for it to be market tested for a while before I even consider it. $2000-$3000 for a shorter, heavier recoiling, huge muzzle flash, deafening report, slower reloading, no practical iron sights, more complicated design? Simplicity is the mother of reliability, and reliability is what you want in combat firearm.
Don't jump on the bullpup bandwagon just yet unless you are fabulously rich. The trend across most of the military world is actually dumping bullpup designs in favor of conventional assault rifle designs.
Sometimes simplicity must be compromised in order to have the weapon do what you want. And simplicity doesn't automatically mean reliability, for that one can build an AK from scratch and put it together and not work due to sloppiness.
How do you defeat body armor with current munitions? Easy, you create a rifle that can put 2 bullets in the same hole. The russians have such a weapon called the AN-94 and is extremely complex. But it's been officially adopted for elite units in some interior ministry of defense or something like that. I've also seen a pic of what seems to be Russian special forces and one of the soldiers had an AEK-971. Unbelievable....
Both of these weapons are much more complex than the AK but are somewhat in service anyway because they do exactly what they were built to do.
If people want a bullpup 308 and has to be a little more complex, then so let it be as long as its proven to be reliable and durable.
I have to admit the SUB-16 does look interesting, and I'm not a big fan of bullpups. Looks like it might be too short to be legal (16 inch barrel, 27 inches overall)
George Kellgren is a great designer who doesn't get the credit he deserves. He'd been responsible for a number of innovative designs that feature polymers.
And Max, I really don't want to receive an Apple iPhone
My question is with the way the action is designed, Would it benefit somebody who would want to put a can on it? Because if it doesn't have to eject the brass per say could you load really light subsonic rounds and have the gun still cycle the action.
Ok the 7.62 looks good, but they need to get a 5.56mm out now!
I will buy both if that helps
Crazy huh? They had that 5.56 prototype already developed and instead of tooling up for it and a 6.8 or 6.5 version they start a completely different .308 from scratch.
I dunno... Bullpups just make me nervous... I'd rather have a potential grenade 8" in front of my face than 1.5" from some important veins/arteries...
Despite the only significant difference being that the spent case is elevated up to the ejection channel above the barrel instead of being thrown out the side, the action still has to fully cycle to load and extract and elevate the case to clear the chamber. Don't recall if the gas system is adjustable.
I need a rifle to accompany the M1A in filling the Semi-Auto MBR niche, and this one might just be the ticket.
8lbs, 26" overall length, 18" barrel
Gotta love that.
Id really like that .223 earlier version of it
I *believe* the gas system is adjustable, although I don't remember how many settings it has. As said above, the key factor is always having enough energy to cycle the bolt-ejection is pretty much unimportant comparatively speaking. OTOH, depending on the gas system, it might be possible to open it up wider to enable cycling of subsonic..although I wouldn't pin my hopes on it.
Lipseys has these advertised at MSRP 1880.00 RIGHT NOW 2008-12-02.Normaly I would wait to pass this info on until I got one myself but I have diverted funds to others and can not make a move.I do not know if they actualy have any but their site shows them.
Impact arms has had them advertised and been taking money for a year. Unless they say they actually have one in stock I wouldn't buy. Also 1880 is steep. The initial shipment is so limited that the prices will be high like that but I'm certain they will be selling for much less than that (I would guess 30% less) early next year when the supply is greater. I am interested to hear reports form the first shipment though.
If it ever gets past vaporware, i may just be compellled to get one. A rechamber to 6.5x47 Lapua or 7-08 may also be in order.......
As far as I know they are still vaporware, no one at the last Houston show had any idea when they would actually ship. And like a lot of the others, for the price they expect I would probably just go with an AR10. I have 2 SU16's and a Sub2000, so I like KT, but this one is just too much dough for not enough go.
I say that because I haven't been able to convince myself that a bullpup .308 is something that is really useful or fun to shoot. Remember, that's a lot more gun than a .223 Bullpup, which I do find useful.
I have a little $$ set aside, in order to attempt to be one of the first to get one. I won't go over $2k, however, tax and all. Interested in the 24" one.
Now, all I need to know is how to convert it to 6.5x55 swedish! Seriously, if you "short-load" the bullets into the case, and do a barrel conversion will they feed through the mag? Bah, the bolt head is different sized, though; Probably not worth the hassle - ok, .260 rem it is, then!!
I always thought that was the other way around. AUG, TAVOR, L85, FAMAS, Type 95, Valmet M82,
Also, I really like that target version. I wonder, the barrel looks like it just unscrews, much like a Windrunner. Might make a nice takedown rifle.
If only I had the $$$$$.....
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