Kel Tec SU16 or Mini 14???

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Don't think I've ever heard someone complain about the SU16, aside from the fact it doesn't have a pistol grip; I've oft heard negative sides to the Mini. That, and the 16 can take STANAG mags, the Mini, you're kinda stuck.
 
If you do a search there are many threads on this topic. If you siff through them, you will find that people that have tried both mostly lean towards the SU16.

Plus, if they mad an SU47, I would buy it tomorrow.
 
...

i love my su16.

but i will likely be buying a mini-14 soon. i'm tired of ammo cases literally melting my receiver. it's only minor damage, but it's not as if i can melt it back into place.
 
this will be your choice. the keltec takes plenty of aftermarket ar stuff. it is super easy to clean, and because it is piston drive, it hardly gets dirty anyway.
it is more accurate, and will take a much wider variety of grainweights, and fire them moa capable. that being said , they are mostly plastic.
The ruger cant do any of the above stuff , at all. But it will be a more robust, throw it in the back of the truck, and bounce it around , type rifle.
 
why not just save up a little more and buy an ar15. More upgrades, just as robust as the mini, and good mags are cheap and readily available.
 
Q: Does Ruger make high capacity mags for the Mini-14 that all of us can buy?

Your answer to this should be your answer to Ruger.
 
I would agree with RCR29, here in Ca we can buy AR's, granted their a bit neutered but........You can do a good AR for around $800 or so. The mini ( i hear ) has poor accuracy and can cost well over $1k to shoot like a Ar15 and the keltec ( i hear ) has kaboom issues. Not trying anger people, its just what i have heard. My $.02
 
Dion, what system is the AR inferior to?
Q: Does Ruger make high capacity mags for the Mini-14 that all of us can buy?
Click to expand...
A: Yes, and they are 3-4 times the cost of a milspec AR mag.

Q:Is the AR more versatile than either of the 2 guns mentioned?
A: Yes. There are a plethora of options available with an AR, not as much so with the kel-tec or mini-14.
What my point is, why spend $400+ on a rifle that is not as good as an ar15. If the mini or the kel-tec fit your needs and you have no desire for an AR style rifle, then, by all means get one of them. But consider going that little bit extra and getting something that is superior to both of these rifles.
 
I'd not heard that Ruger sells high capacity magazines for civilian purchase can you show me an authorized Ruger dealer that has some?

I'd like to see a test of those other rifles with the same specification the military used for the original AR.
 
http://blackstararms.com/punbb/ Sometime early next year, cali legal Uses AR mags and AR uppers. I own a keltec which I like but it has had its share of extraction problems. I just put a new stag extractor in it so I will see if that is the fix. Mark

rifle_splash.gif
 
Consider a Saiga .223 ($250-300), and add Mojo's AK micro-click rear sight ($59). The only downside to this set-up would be the cost of hi-cap mags ($40-50).


nero
 
OK, I just popped onto the Blackstar site and found what was just about the coolest front page narrative I've ever read!

Fundamentally, the Blackstar rifle is simply a redesigned AR-15 lower receiver in which the trigger has been moved up and back so that a traditional comb stock can be used. As is well known to the directors of the VPC and the Brady Center, a comb stock is far less dangerous to public order than a pistol grip. Not only will Blackstar shooters be able to legally enjoy all the functionality of an AR-15 rifle, but they will be able to sleep better at night knowing their use of a dolphin-friendly traditional comb stock must result in far less injury, death and carnage than would be caused by a pistol grip stock. And fewer dead kittens.
Click to expand...

Love it!
If I were still in CA I would absolutely need to support this company. Hell, I may yet.
:)


B.
 
Silverlance

tired of ammo cases literally melting my receiver
Click to expand...

I have the SU-16A. You've probably seen my field test thread.

I'm very curious: what is it that happens to place hot brass against the receiver shell?

I've not had this happen to me, and haven't seen it mentioned before.
 
I'd say SU-16.

IMO, the Mini-14 is obsolete. It was made before they knew better, and the thin barrel and inaccuracy issues just don't hold up to all the better options out there now.

Though the point of the SU-16, as to why you'd buy it, is that it folds. If you want a nonfolding carbine, the Saiga .223 makes the Ruger look like an inaccurate piece of junk, and is much cheaper besides!
 
personally , I think the kaboom stories are a bit of a myth, I think that if you use brass ammo, you will never have any probs. i would not doubt that if their was a kaboom issue, it had something to do with operator error. i have put about 6 diff mfgrs of various ammo through my plr now,including milsurp. i have not cleaned or lubricated it at all, and it runs without a hiccup.
 
What kaboom stories with the SU are you talking about?

Besides mine with probably several thousand rounds through it, there are many guys shooting them in Houston with no reports of any problems. I'm sure that one or two have been blown up for various reasons, but have never heard of any significant number of problems.

I'm definately interested in seeing any actual failure reports, not just internet stories.
 
SU-16 Kaboom?

I haven't seen any reports.

I've seen some "plausibility" discussion, where the "plastic receiver" is the "likely cause" because, well, it's plastic!

The actual chamber, barrel, bolt, and all that stuff is . . . steel.

The bang happens in a steel chamber.

Just like in plastic pistols.

I think we have a case of "plastic gun anxiety" showing up as "fact."

Please feel free to direct me to photos showing differently.
 
The problem with saigas is they are listed as assault weapons in california. There are ways around it by building one with an off list lower or I have heard there are some saigas that supposedly aren't on the assault weapon list but look identical, then good luck trying to find an ffl to receive it after you order it. Here in cali is the laws are confusing so you could get arrested by cops that don't know any better after you get it. Mark
 
A Ruger might be better if you like that style. I might be the least likely to be added to AWB lists in the future.

An SU-16 might be easier to accessorize with AR stuff and AR mags are cheaper and easier to get. Also, if you see yourself upgrading to an AR in the future, you don't have to buy another set of mags. That is a big plus to me. Collecting a decent amount of mags for each rifle you own is expensive.
 
I have the SU-16 A and mine has the extraction issue. I have not been able to resolve it so far..but I haven't put a lot of effort into it yet (too many projects and not even time right now). I also have one of the newer Mini-14 models. Of the two I much prefer the Mini-14. And that would be the case even with out extraction issues on the kel-tec. Nothing scientific about this preference..I just like the Mini-14 better. I enjoy shooting the Mini-14..it is fun. The SU-16 is a little more accurate...as is my Bushmaster AR-15..but the Ruger is not as bad in the accuracy department as some might make it sound (about even with my Russian SKS..and slightly better than my MAK90 AK47). I have some Ruger factory 20 rounders (about $30 a piece NIB) and have had no problems with the 10 rounds mags made by both John Masen and Promag.
 
My buddy has a SU-16C and I have one of the newer minis. I would never trade. His jams constantly - my mini (including a previous mini I owned) has never jammed. I have had no magazine problems and accuracy of my new 580 series mini is better than my previous one and suitable for what I use it for (truck/farm). I believe my mini is MUCH more rugged than his SU-16 and I appreciate the rust resistant stainless steel my mini is made of. I do not use the mini for paper targets other than sighting in and ammo evaluation. I have bolt actions for target and long range hunting - the mini does what I ask of it in great fashion.

Also be aware, if you have aging eyes like I do and want to occasionally use the iron sights, the front sight on some models of the SU-16 (C and CA, for example) may be too close to your eye to focus on (same for almost all ARs). The mini front sight is on the end of its 18 inch barrel, making iron sight shooting much easier for me (even though mine usually wears a scope I want iron sights I can use if I had to).
 
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