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keltec .380:do you think there will enough to go around?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by megatronrules, Apr 20, 2003.

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  1. megatronrules

    megatronrules Member

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    I was just wondering about this guys do you think keltec will supply enough to meet the demand? I've heard that when the p32 came out it took 6 months to get one and it coasts double the suggested retail price is this true? Anyone experiance this when trying to get thair p32's back when they first came out? Anyways I hope I'll be able to get one of the new keltec .380's in a couple months cause i've been saving my money for one for a while now.

    If anyone here has info on this please let me know. thank you
     
  2. Bergeron

    Bergeron Member

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    I think that this pistol will be THE carry pistol to get, but, having said that, I think that I will wait until about this time next year before trying to aquire one. If folks want to pay more money to be the first on their block with one, more power to em, but I would rather wait. Besides, if there are any problems, a year should be suffcient time to work them out.
     
  3. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    Yeah, what he said.:cool:
     
  4. arinvolvo

    arinvolvo Member

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    I concur...Let them cool off...let Keltec work the bugs out of them, and then pick one up.
     
  5. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    Having bought one of the first Taurus PT-145's that came out (You remember what happened to them!!), I'm tired of being a "beta tester" for the gun companies!! I would wait!!! ;)
     
  6. Rover

    Rover Member

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    I agree with all the above.

    Regards
     
  7. firestar

    firestar member

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    You don't need to wait for Kel-Tec to iron out the problems, they will fix anything that goes wrong for free, for life. What you have to wait for is the price to come down to at least retail before you buy. I know about three people that will be buying one once they are selling at normal price and one of them is me. What are we going to do with all our P-32?
     
  8. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    Well, I am planning on picking up a couple of P-32s after the 3ATs get shipped because I figure the prices will drop a lot. I'll get a 3AT sometime after I read some reports on them to make sure everything is okay.

    GT
     
  9. Bowlcut

    Bowlcut Member

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    im goign to give them a few months but hope they come out soon and work out well. I want to get one for dad for his pocket pistol. He already has a Bursa .380 so would be nice for him to not have to worry about ammo for 2 guns. Going to get him a .32 at first then trade him the .380 model when it becomes avaible. Keep the .32 for myself :)
     
  10. Landric

    Landric Member

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    Well,

    Given Kel-Tec's past track record of putting firearms on the market before they actually function properly, I'd say that one would be wise to wait a while before buying a P3AT.

    I owned two Kel-Tec pistols, a P40 and a P32. Neither of them functioned as a handgun designed for self defense should (that is, they were not reliable). The P40 went back to the factory three times (at great expense to me) and they still could not make it work. It was as if they didn't even read the letters I included about the problems it was having. I was far from the only person having problems with the P40. In fact, one will note that the P40 is no longer manufactured. The "smile" problem was a serious problem that should have been corrected before the gun was ever put out on the market. It wasn't.

    The P32 was not reliable (feeding, extraction, ejection) and its trigger system malfunctioned on a pretty regular basis. Again, I sent it back to Kel-Tec and they failed to correct the problem. I Still got to spend $25 or so to send it to them though.

    I know that the Kel-Tec faithful do not want to hear this, but there is a reason that so many people know how great Kel-Tec customer service is supposed to be. That is because so many people have problems with their pistols and have to send them back for service.

    Personally I'd rather pay $100 more for a Kel-Tec and get one that works. If Kel-Tec cannot manufacture their handguns with accecptable levels of reliability out of the box at the current price, then they need to increase the quality of their manufacture and if that requires a price increase, so be it.

    I expect that the P-3AT will be a big headache for new owners for at least a year. Of course the Kel-Tec faithful will defend these unreliable pistols to the end. I hope I am wrong, but past experience suggests that I will not be...
     
  11. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    I'm #1 on the list for one at the gun shop and can afford to test it this time around.

    The P-32 was so scarce around here that I drove more than 100 miles to buy one in the 12xxx range and the only reason it was available was because the front sight was cut off-center and nobody wanted it for $275. Of course, I knew about the chromed slide exchange and they didn't.

    John
     
  12. alamo

    alamo Member

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    I'm going to get 2 of them once they are available. I wouldn't count on them being widely available for a good while if the sell as fast as the P-32.
     
  13. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    Welcome to THR, Landric! :D
    You've had 2 KTs and got two that weren't unreliable. I've got two KTs and both have been totally reliable and eminently satisfactory to the point that I'd have to be unreasonable to come up with any complaint other than both guns needed cleaning right out of the box.

    But when you say "these unreliable pistols" referring to P3ATs that haven't even be released yet, aren't you projecting your biases onto them? :D

    I'm willing to let them earn their own reputation, and because of my high opinion of KTs and KT based on my personal experience with them, I'm eager to get one!
     
  14. Landric

    Landric Member

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    Howdy,

    Yes, I am projecting my bias on the P-3AT. My experience and that of a lot of other people on the net has taught me that KT does not have a good track record with new designs.

    I don't doubt that the current P32 and P11 pistols work, at least in the vast majority of examples. In fact, I am considering buying another P32 since they have been around for a while now.

    However, there are A LOT of people who have posted about problems with their KT pistols. I have never seen so many posts about problems with defensive handgun from other manufactures. The fact that so many people have had great experiences with KT customer service suggests a problem. Its great that they fix problems quickly. Its too bad that they have so many problems to fix.

    I have Beretta, HK, S&W, Kahr, Glock, and several other brands of handguns. I have no idea what their repair service is like because I have never needed it. Its pretty sad that I bought two KT pistols and neither of them worked. Its even worse that KT could not correct the problems with either of them.

    I owned three SIG-Sauer pistols over the years, a P220, a P225, and a P230. All three of them broke their trigger return springs prior to 1000 rounds. In my opinion there is some design flaw there. The only other gun I have had a trigger return spring problem with has been a KT. Go figure. I won't buy another SIG. They got three chances. They fixed the problem each time, but I just didn't trust the springs to hold up after that. I know others who have had the same problem.

    So yes, I am projecting my bias on the P-3AT, but if I turn out to be right, just remember that I told you so. I really hope I am wrong, because I figure I can give KT one more chance to get it right.
     
  15. alamo

    alamo Member

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    I think you have seen more postings about problems with some KT pistols for several reasons:

    1) The P-32 for example - this has been one of the best selling pistolsl over its life than about any other - 106,000+ made in just 4 years. The more pistols, the more that will have some problems, not necessarily a higher percentage than others. I'm sure Glock has made more over a 4 year period but that includes an awful lot of law enforcement contract sales.

    2) KT pistols push the design limit for size & weight due to their intended purpose. A larger, heavier pistol is more forgiving when it comes to certain things that can cause a failure. There isn't as much margin for error with such lightweight pistols. If Glock made a 6.6 ounce pistol that sold for $500 like their others, I'm sure it would be more reliable out of the box than most P-32s but I have no doubt it would have a higher return rate than other Glocks and certainly Kahr has had their fair share of problems with their polymer pistols.

    3) Operator error - The low price of KT pistols (low to mid $200s in most places) tends to attract more novice buyers who are unfamiliar with how to properly maintain and use a lightweight pistol. They must be held firmly to prevent limpwristing, this is a cause of some failures with KTs that are often blamed on the pistol when they are in fact the fault of the user.

    4) Lack of proper lubrication - proper lubrication is essential for reliable function of these pistols. Again, with the small size and very lightweight of their designs, it doesn't take much friction, particularly with a new pistol that hasn't been broken in, to cause a malfunction. A larger, heavier pistol would be more forgiving in this regard.

    I've seen plenty of posting on the KT forum from novice buyers who take their KT right of the box, no cleaning or lubrication, using the cheapest ammo they can find and then blame the pistol when they had a couple of failures in the first 50 or 100 rounds. A good number of these pistols would be perfectly reliable after a break-in period of 100-200 rounds with proper lubrication and held firmly as the should be. By proper lubrication, I mean a light coat of grease on the slide rails and hammer/slide interface and oil on the other spots.

    To be sure, some do need a trip to the factory for repairs, but $25 or so to ship it back is not a high price to pay for such unique pistols that only cost in the low $200s.

    I've got 3 Kel-Tecs, put me down for 2 more - P-3ATs.
     
  16. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    While I can't really be considered one of the KT "faithful" I can see where Landric is coming from. I happen to be one of the lucky ones that hasn't had a single problem with my P-32, albeit after only 75 rounds. However I think that's quite good for any new gun. I did have the problems he's talking about with an AMT Govt. model, and it so soured me against AMT, I don't even discuss the brand with all the guys that say they never had an ounce of trouble with them. Unfair? Probably, but that's just how it is. Some of us simply draw the lemons. I've been lucky with just about everything after the AMT, though. Hopefully that one was my only Edsel.
     
  17. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    I checked out a P32 at the gunshop awhile back. It really felt kinda rinkydink. When I pulled the trigger I was worried it was going to break. And I've heard stories about Kel-Tecs breaking in peoples pockets. This is not a gun I would want to carry. I'll take my Cop over two Kel-Tecs. The P-11 however is kind of a neat pistol, I may want to get one of these someday.

    But, I'm really interested in either the MK9 or the upcoming Rohrbaugh. Now THAT's a pocket pistol! :cool:
     
  18. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    alamo nailed it very well.
     
  19. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    I agree, especially with 1,2 and 3. But having seen and handled one, I'd still be awfully leary about using one as my only CCW. It just wouldn't feel "right". I don't know how to explain it. I guess it's like when you go somewhere unarmed, but instead of that feeling you get sort of a "dorky" feeling :uhoh:

    In other words, If I was so worried about being made that I could only carry a P32....I'd rather carry a 9mm derringer. More reliable (especially in dirty environments) and smaller yet, with a bigger caliber.
     
  20. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    Wow... I'm really suprised to hear all the bad experience and negativity around KelTec. I've had three P32s ranging from SN: 45,xxx ro 75,xxx and I think I've had a combined total of about 4 failures in about 2,000 rounds including FMJ, Silvertips and Gold Dots. The first two were given to family members upon seeing mine. My current one has over 1,200 rounds through it and hasn't had a failure in the last 1,100 of 'em.

    I think I'll pass on picking up the new .380 until SN at least 30,000. I know most of the issues of the P32 were worked out sooner than that but with the instant demand that exists for the 380, I'd rather see a higher number. And I'm also not going to be paying $350 for one. I paid $240 for my two hard chromed P32s and I would like to pay no more than about $280 for the 380. I think I'd like to get one by November if at all possible.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Akurat

    Akurat Member

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    Like others have said, I'll let everyone else be the guinea pigs and wait for the reviews to pile up before getting one. :cool:
     
  22. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    From A to Z or (C to W....Computers to Weapons), I never buy Version 1.0.0.0 of anything. It takes a revision or 2 to get all the 'bugs' out. Being a beta tester can be a real bummer.
     
  23. mini14jac

    mini14jac Member

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    I was on a waiting list at least 6 months to get my first P32.
    (I waited over a year to get a Guardian.)

    Our two P32s needed work.
    My brother's P32 needed work.
    Some was done at home, (with free parts from KT), but my P32 has been back to the factory.
    All of these guns are now (after several hundred rounds) reliable carry weapons.

    Of two P11s owned, one had to go back.

    All of that said, yes, I would like to get a P3AT.
    And no, I won't be buying one for at least a year.
    I will let some of you other guys do "T&E" on these guns.
    I've done my time as a test bed. :p
     
  24. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    I don't mind testing new guns. In fact, I like to.

    I'm not going to carry ANY gun I haven't thoroughly tested anyway, no matter who the manufacturer is.
     
  25. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    Let's see if I get the logic...

    Kel-Tec should charge $100 more for each gun and make them more reliable. Therefore, everybody would pay an extra $100 rather than only some people paying - the small percentage who have problems.

    Okay, what about the people who get a problem gun - like me. I still believe that I bought what is basically a $400 gun for $275 and then had to pay a little bit more in shipping to get it fixed. (If'n it said Glock, Sig or HK, and maybe Kimber, on the side it would be a $400 gun.)

    I had the trigger axis on my P-32 break and paid to ship it back. All in all it was a whole lot cheaper than paying an extra C note up front to get a more reliable gun as some have suggested. And my gun has been fine ever since. Even counting the chromed slide upgrade I'm over $50 ahead.

    I think Kel-Tec knows what their doing.

    As far as taking a chance on blowing $305 or $310 on a P-3AT, it's only money. My last three rifle scopes averaged around $400 with one of them running over $500. Nice medium-priced stuff.

    John
     
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