Keltec pf-9, friendly warning about Keltec

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Did the dealer have the other pistol and box or was the other pistol and box somewhere else?Reason I ask is that the shop might have taken the guns out and put them in the wrong boxes. The shop is also suppose to check the box serial number and the gun serial number with every purchase so stuff like this doesn't happen.
 
If the police ran the serial numbers of your gun they would only be able to check it against a list of reported stolen guns. They have no clue who bought what where. The serial number on a plastic case has no bearing on anything. The FFL has to write the serial number from the actual gun, not the box it came in.
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Not exactly. They could, with the help of the ATF, go back to the manufacturer and work forward. As long as subsequent transfers were done by FFLs (or private individuals who kept records), and not too many years had elapsed, they could work their way up to the current owner. If someone in that chain wasn't an FFL, and didn't keep detailed records, the chain would be broken.

The FFL is supposed to write the number from the actual gun, not the box, but that clearly didn't happen in the example cited by the original poster.

This tracking process will only work for about, I think, 10 years from the date of initial transfer -- as FFLs are only required to keep records for about that long.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
Not exactly. They could, with the help of the ATF, go back to the manufacturer and work forward. As long as subsequent transfers were done by FFLs (or private individuals who kept records), and not too many years had elapsed, they could work their way up to the current owner. If someone in that chain wasn't an FFL, and didn't keep detailed records, the chain would be broken.

The FFL is supposed to write the number from the actual gun, not the box, but that clearly didn't happen in the example cited by the original poster.

This tracking process will only work for about, I think, 10 years from the date of initial transfer -- as FFLs are only required to keep records for about that long.
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I was specifically responding to the OP's statement which said if he was stopped by the police they would be able to check the serial database and see the serial number for his gun. Not gonna happen since there is no database. At a traffic stop or such the police can only check the gun against a stolen gun database.

If the gun was involved in a crime then yes, the ATF could backtrack to which FFL the gun went to and then the first person to purchase.

If you follow the link I posted above you will read this

Federal Firearms Licensees’ (FFLs) must keep a copy of each BATF 4473 for which a NICS check

has been initiated, regardless of whether the transfer of the firearm was completed. If the transfer

is not completed, the FFL must keep the Form 4473 for five (5) years after the date of the NICS

inquiry. If the transfer is completed, the FFL must keep the Form 4473 for 20 years after the date

of the sale or disposition. 27 CFR 478.129(b)
 
I was specifically responding to the OP's statement which said if he was stopped by the police they would be able to check the serial database and see the serial number for his gun. Not gonna happen since there is no database. At a traffic stop or such the police can only check the gun against a stolen gun database.
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I agree with what you write here, and there was a LOT of misinformation -- and you're correct that there's no way the police could do a QUICK check like the OP feared.

But, many folks don't understand that law enforcement agencies DO have the ability to track gun ownership and transfers more extensively if they choose to. It's not always a successful search, but it sometime works for them. (And, as you note, FFL records must be kept for 20 years, not 10.)

There's no reason to think that most law enforcement agency would undertake the sort of hunt for information the OP was concerned about, at a traffic stop, etc. But, in some states, depending on the permitting process and state or local laws, the officers might be more GESTAPO-like.

I also have a NC CWP and appreciate that while we in NC have it a lot easier than in some states, still other states have it easier, still.


.
 
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I live in Ohio. There is no listing of guns on the conceal carry permit. A new buy is only listed when bought from a dealer through an FFL. Private buys are not listed and no transfer is made.
 
I wonder how long I would have walked around with an un-lincenced, un-registered conceiled firearm, until the police would have caught me with it.

I urge everyone out there that when purchasing a pistol from any dealer to compair s/ns of the box to the s/n of the gun in the box before leaving any store.

Thankfully I never had a traffic check or permit check while carrying this thing or my wife would have been bailing me out of jail.
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No she wouldn't have. There's no federal licensing or registration scheme either, the 4473s are kind of irrelevant except as a means to badger FFLs and as a CYA in case a prohibited person somehow manages to successfully pass an NICS check and buys a gun from an FFL.

If police for some reason ran your pistol's serial number, the only way it could possibly lead to uncomfortable questions is if the specific gun/serial number in question had been reported stolen at some point. Being that the other gunstore did what they were supposed to, and actually recorded the serial number off the firearm and not off the box, the minor mistake was caught.

Your state has a licensing and registration scheme? Ugly.



Oh I think you've gotten everything straightened out already.
 
Thank GOD for Texas. We need secession. Over half my firearms were bought used and have no 4473 paperwork or anything else and it's none of the gubment's business. The gubment has no clue how many firearms I have....but it's lots.
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But you can still be arrested for printing?
 
But you can still be arrested for printing?
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No, we can only be arrested for "flashing". The printing thing was clarified in a revision of the law. NOW, what we're trying to do is get open carry so that "flashing" will be irrelevant. :D THIS needs to happen.

I never claimed Texas was the BEST gun owner's state, but it's far from the WORST. We don't have any kind of registration in any shape or form.

Arizona finally has it right. So does Alaska I believe. I think New Hampshire is decent, but hell, we got counties bigger than that. In Texas, we have some things to work out, yet, but we seem to be getting there....I hope.
 
Years ago when I lived in Charleston, SC CCW'rs had to qualify with the firearm they would be carrying and that is all they could carry. Here in Mich. that is not the case, but all handgun purchases gun shop or private sale must be registered with the local and state police. A CCW'r can purchase a handgun as long as document RI-60 is filled out and mailed to your local police dept and or Sherrifs office, they intern send a copy to the state police. Folks without a CCW must go to the police dept and get a permit to purchase ( basically they run a background check charge you $5 and give a card you give the person or shop you are buying from )
 
Your state has a licensing and registration scheme? Ugly.

Yes, in Raleigh there is.

It seems to be federally exempt from State laws.

All of it seems to be alive and well in Raleigh unless it has changed recently.
 
Your state has a licensing and registration scheme? Ugly.

Yes, in Raleigh there is.

It seems to be federally exempt from State laws.

All of it seems to be alive and well in Raleigh unless it has changed recently.
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I'm curious -- what is that scheme?

I know that CONCEALED CARRY licensees are in a database, but not their weapons. No registration, there.

I've heard that Durham has tried to institute a registration scheme, but it doesn't look as though it's being enforced.

As a NC resident, I'd like to know what am I missing -- or what I have to be concerned about?
 
In Oklahoma, there is no registration or licensing of guns. When you take the Concealed Handgun License class you have to shoot a "qualification" which is more of a "demonstrate that you won't accidentally shoot yourself." If you shoot a semiautomatic, you can carry a semiautomatic, a revolver, or a derringer. If you shoot a revolver, all you can carry is a revolver. If you shoot a derringer(?), all you can carry is a derringer. I shot an M1911A1 (after carrying one for 16 years in the Army before we got stuck with the M9), but I carry revolvers.

The guns you carry don't show up on your license anywhere.

ECS
 
Every time I've purchased a gun from a store, the clerks have taken the gun out and checked it against the S/N on the box: sloppy on Kel-Tec's part, super sloppy on the dealer's part.
 
TGT,

I read through this thread, but may have missed it... what evidence do you have that this was KT's screwup and not the dealer's? Does the barcode data on a particular box not match the serial# printed on it?

The more likely scenario to me is the dealer had 2 (or more) similar/identical pistols and put them back incorrectly after inspecting/playing with them. They then noticed the error when they went to sell the other pistol.

I say this partly because you had a lot of misconceptions about "registering" guns in your state which I think a half-decent shop would've made an attempt to correct at the same time they were fiddling with your paperwork.

In short, barring some evidence or admission from KT, I would ask for a Mod to edit the thread title removing all mention of KT.

Disclosure: I have owned 2 Kel Tec's and been satisfied with them. Still own one and plan on adding a 2nd back to my inventory... maybe 3 if those KSGs ever make it to market.
 
Seems to me that the point of this is simple. One should always check the serial number on anything you buy if the serial number is of any importance. I always check the VIN# on any vehicle I buy and the serial numbers on any guns I buy. People do screw up and its MY responsibility to verify such things. Here, in Virginia, its legal for private individuals to buy/sell and trade guns with other state residents who are not felons. That kinda messes up the "registration" idea.
 
Frizzman,

Thank you,

That was exactly the point of the post.

Nullcone,

I don't have a thing against Kelltec, after reading the posts from apparent FFL holders or people that are very knowledgable in these things, I know that the larger mistake was made by the dealer, if in fact Keltec even made one.

No, the barcode and the s/n on the box did not match the number on the pistol. That's the way I purchased it and didn't think to look. The barcode # and s/n on the box was transfered to my name. The pistol had a diferent #.

I don't have any proof that Keltec switched anything, I was going off of what the dealer told me. He said the other gun was finally sold, and I don't know the record keeping process of the gun manuf's or how they know when a gun has been sold, or if their even is a record keeping process by the manuf but he said Keltec called him after the other gun was sold because Keltec thought two pistols were built with the same s/n.

The dealer then called me to bring mine in to check the numbers and found that indeed the barcode and # on the box did not match the # on the pistol.

I already stated previously that I wish I would have kept Keltecs name out of this altogether after I learned the responsibility of the FFL.

I think I should have taken someone's advise in this thread and called Keltec to find out if this "switch" in fact did happen or if I was mislead.

I don't blame Keltec at all now. After about 15 people chimed about the FFL holders responsibility's in checking numbers, I now know Keltec in practibility did nothing more than a clearical error, if it happened at all.

This post was about making sure people think about checking your serial #s when buying a handgun, not a witch hunt for Keltec.

As others have said, "This happens with all the manafacturers."

I will buy more Keltec products in the future and still, as I said in the original post, that I think they make an outstanding product for the money and are very reputable, and nothing will change that opinion I have for them.

I think we all need to let this thing die.

I will ask for a Modification for the title, I don't care if Keltec did switch the pistols in the boxes. I agree completely. I just have to figure out how.

The gun laws of North Carolina that are stated here are very interesting though. I have really enjoyed reading about them.

TT
 
Are you still considered the owner of the incorrect serial number pistol? I would be more concerned about that.
 
I honestly don't believe KelTec made the mistake. I think the dealer is playing the blame game and he got caught with his pants down. Every time I have ever bought a firearm the dealer has always PHYSICALLY HELD the firearm being purchased and rattled off the serial number(s) for the 4473. PERIOD! I have never witnessed a dealer going off the info on the box. That is ludicrous!
 
The feds just require your purchase to be filed. Out here, they do not "license" any particular firearm for concealed carry, so I can legally carry any of my guns concealed, regardless of serial number. Open carry is the same. No "registered" serial numbers for carry. Most of mine were mine before the feds began keeping serial numbers, anyway.
 
In my country we have a 2nd Amendment stating that we have a right to keep and bear arms. No registration needed. :rolleyes::neener:

Actually, I would also prefer my firearm's serial number match that which is on the box/case. You will be better off this way.
 
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