Kennedy Just Explained What He Means By "Cop-Killer" Bullets

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HKMP5SD - Regarding 178.37 Manufacture, importation and sale of armor piercing ammunition.

So if you are not a manufacturer or an importer of AP ammunition, you can sell it, right?


Wes - Glad to see you do that. :)
Desertrat - Take a hint :(
 
Wes, moderators and all, a brief moment of sanity.

Arguing with antis like Teddy won't help no matter how strong the logic, nor will threats, obscene gestures, wishes for long jail sentences, anger nor strife. What will help is a concerted effort to identify them as the buffoons they really are. Laughter will show Teddy boy in harsh sunlight to be the bloated broken-veined tick that he is.

Laugh at him until all around you are sharing the joke. :D
 
So if you are not a manufacturer or an importer of AP ammunition, you can sell it, right?
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Dunno. Sounds like some of the liberal drug laws out west. It's illegal to grow pot, import pot and sell pot, but it's ok to have small amounts for personal use.

The law says no person shall manufacture or import AP ammo. So if you have some, someone, somewhere broke the law.
 
This would be almost as good as banning shotguns!

Just think how many people this would wake up!
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That would be nice, but I don't see it. I doubt the hunters and target shooters who aren't bothered by gun control will notice- they are often fairly politically apathetic. No one is saying "we want to ban rifle ammo" which they might notice, what they are saying is "we want to ban armor piercing rounds" which the hunters agree with. They aren't going to think through the ramifications and realize that they are indeed the ones targeted by this. I'm not even sure if people like us try to educate them it will take- we'll probably be dismissed as being paranoid.

The law says no person shall manufacture or import AP ammo. So if you have some, someone, somewhere broke the law.
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Nope, not if the stuff was made and imported before the law took effect. All the armor piercing rounds I've seen before was old (often WWII vintage) surplus stuff.
 
Kennedy Just Explained What He Means By "Cop-Killer" Bullets
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I guess if we are going to be lectured about "killer" anything, a speaker with first-hand experience is in order. :rolleyes:



Speaking of killers, John-John Kennedy - who followed in unka Teddy's young woman killing footsteps* - was asked by his wife if there would be enough time to shower before takeoff. John-John replied "Don't bother, we'll just wash up on the beach."


Here's to you Teddy!
xxxooo

Now where is that middle finger smiley anyway? :confused:


*(John-John killed one more than Teddy for those keeping score)
 
Whats particularly amusing is the Teddy started ranting about these horrible "cop-killer" bullets immediatly after lambasting the LEO CCW amendment. I guess he is all for protecting cops so long as he doesnt actually end up doing them any good in the real world.
 
That would be nice, but I don't see it. I doubt the hunters and target shooters who aren't bothered by gun control will notice- they are often fairly politically apathetic. No one is saying "we want to ban rifle ammo" which they might notice, what they are saying is "we want to ban armor piercing rounds" which the hunters agree with. They aren't going to think through the ramifications and realize that they are indeed the ones targeted by this. I'm not even sure if people like us try to educate them it will take- we'll probably be dismissed as being paranoid.
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That's the idea. Right now they dismiss anyone who tries to show them that they aren't safe from gun control legislation as paranoid, but if centerfire rifle ammo (or shotguns) became illegal or highly restricted, Jim and Bubba stopping by the Wally World to get their yearly box of .30-30 for huntin' deer or to look at a new bird gun would get a crash course in American politics.
 
Anyone got a direct source for the quote? There are some on another forum questioning that Kennedy said that at all. I suppose it would be nice if the quote was in one of the socialist-accredited sources. Save some on the "what do you expect from lying Newsmax/Fox/Drudge/etc." drivel.
 
I could have sworn they were selling AP .223 at the last gun show I was at. And I don't mean the steel cored, green tipped SS109/M855, I mean the hardcore, black tipped, tungsten carbide penetrator real deal AP .223.

Either thats what it was, or someone painted their bullet tips black to mislead and jack up the price.

I'm going to go to another show this weekend to pick some stuff up; I'll look for it again.
 
Question:confused: I once heard, and I have no idea if this is true
or not, that some arrow broad heads will penetrate a vest if you hit it
at the correct angle and from under 20 yards.
Would that make them "cop killer" arrows? :scrutiny:
Now is good old Teddy going to be coming after crossbow, compound bow
and maybe some of the massive recurve bows:what:
 
Bill Summary & Status for the 108th Congress
See it here
S.AMDT.2619
Amends: S.1805
Sponsor: Sen Kennedy, Edward M. [MA] (submitted 2/26/2004) (proposed 2/26/2004)
AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To expand the definition of armor piercing ammunition and to require the Attorney General to promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against body armor.

TEXT OF AMENDMENT AS SUBMITTED: CR S1695

STATUS:

2/26/2004:
Amendment SA 2619 proposed by Senator Kennedy.

Yep - he wants it all!
In his attempt to obfuscate S. 1805, being debated by the Senate today. Senator Kennedy revealed himself to be not only ignorant of the facts of the Amendment he offered, but reality as well. Simply stated, it is not the design or composition of a bullet that enables it to pierce soft body armor, only its velocity. To attempt to legislate restrictions on the velocity of bullets would indicate a desire to eliminate all high velocity ammunition. I guess Sen. Kennedy would have us throw our ammunition at violent attackers, possibly from a moving car?
 
Oops- I guess I COULD post the text of the amendment offered by Sen. Kennedy...would have redefined "Armor Piercing" - yes - you know what he wants.. tell all your friends what he is after...he WILL try again..and again..and .....

See it here

SA 2619. Mr. KENNEDY submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 1805, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their products by others; as follows:


On page 11, after line 19, add the following:

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or centerfire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.
 
This kind of crap won't pass. They won't ban .270 or .308 trust me on that one.
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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, just like the Supremes wouldn't let Campaign Finance Reform stand.

Your attitude is what KILLS the RKBA movement. Thanks for trusting YOUR govt. :rolleyes:
 
I got my dad to email Santorum, not that he will actually read it before the vote.
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Actually, when I called his office the person answering the phone was typing in my position. She was very receptive. Specter's office on the other hand, sounded pretty disinterested.
 
Could someone post Kennedy's AP ammo transcripts? If we could show him mention 30-30 by name, that would go a long way towards convincing fence-sitting gunowners. I've seen people post transcripts before, I believe there's a Lautenberg transcript in the CSPAN thread, but I don't know where to get them from, myself.
 
The law says no person shall manufacture or import AP ammo. So if you have some, someone, somewhere broke the law.
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From: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/geninfo.htm
Scroll to section 17.

"Exemptions: The following articles are exempted from the definition of armor piercing ammunition.
5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855 Ammunition, identified by a green coating on the projectile tip.
U.S. .30-06 M2AP, identified by a black coating on the projectile tip."


The M2 at least is DEFINITELY armor piercing ammunition by fact, but not by BATFE fiat. It is simply exempt for some unknown reason. Many reloaders (cough) have stashes of black tip M2AP bullets available. It is not illegal to reload it in 30/06 per this document. The reloading of it in other .30 ammunition is somewhat nebulous,as is the reloading of .50BMG AP. API and APIT miss the definition as a good portion of their cores are not made of materials on the ATF armor piercing naughty list.
Trick is, no licensed manufacturer sells the loaded ammo. However, component bullets are sold online.
SS109 isn't armor piercing as it is only partially steel cored Only black tip M995 .223 is illegal.
 
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