Kimber has a job opening for a gun designer

[Ithaca37]

You would be wrong. Just b/c it's not down for your discipline doesn't mean it's not down for mine or the next guy's.

Fair enough.

I'd jump on $10/hour right now out of mere common sense.

So you are currently unemployed? $10/hr can only look good if you do not have an engineering job right now. Like I said, there are jobs out there. Maybe not in your area, but the market is a whole is not so bad that I would consider what amounts to a consulting job for $10/hr.

And, this is very common practice for engineering companies to hire all they can for as little as it takes in an employer's market. It's low down, but it's smart. You don't need a Masters for QC, metallurgy, physics, design, stress analysis, et al., they simply WANT one. As an engineer worth his salt, you should know that.

True enough. Experience can easily outweigh education. However, there is a difference in those with a graduate education and those without. Not everyone is capable of graduate level work (granted, some are capable but choose not to and those are the people for whom the MS vs BS doesn't matter because they are damn good engineers regardless). Your typical BSME does not operate at the same level as a MS or PhD. That is why typical salary for an MS is (or was until recently anyways) $15K higher than for those with a BS and advancement is easier for those with the graduate degree.

My point was more directed at the non-engineers who seem to think they could do firearm design as well as an engineer.

 

[mrokern]

Ok, all of you who are whining up above, raise your hand if you actually OWN a Kimber. Chances are, you don't. They sell more 1911s than the other companies, and by sheer logic, there will be more complaints. And let's be honest...how many people post raving reviews? Nah. Most people only post complaints.

I'll put my CDP (the one I happen to have on me this very moment) up against any tupperware you happen to own, or Colt, or anything else for reliability and accuracy right now.

The one time I had to send a Kimber back to them, it was quick, polite, and they even did a few extra nice to haves on the gun before sending it back. All on their dime, both ways.

I own 3. I'd trust any one of them with my life.

-Mark

 

[Owen]

$15k higher for a MSME? where? when I was looking into getting an MSME a few years ago, it was only about a $3k/year difference...IOW, no payoff.

 

[earlthegoat2]

$10.00/hr looks great to me. I have been graduated from college for 4 years now and have yet to attain a position that does not underemploy my education and experience. Granted I dont have a degree in engineering.

Maximum wage- 9.15/hr. That was 3 years ago. I have since accepted less money for less stressful work. I am in a unique position to able to make choices like this because I have all my insurance from the military and I have no kids.

 

[Chief Engineer]

How much should I request of them to re-invent the wheel?

 

[19-3Ben]

How much should I request of them to re-invent the wheel?

How round do you plan to make it?

 

[earlthegoat2]

How much should I request of them to re-invent the wheel?

Sounds like your overqualified.

They will just hire one of the accountant's kids or something anyway who is barely qualified to work anywhere. Old boys system rules.

 

[EddieNFL]

Ok, all of you who are whining up above, raise your hand if you actually OWN a Kimber. Chances are, you don't.

Bought three, still have two.

They sell more 1911s than the other companies, and by sheer logic, there will be more complaints.

Using that logic, we should all be driving Toyotas.

 

[Ithaca37]

$15k higher for a MSME? where? when I was looking into getting an MSME a few years ago, it was only about a $3k/year difference...IOW, no payoff.

I can't find the ME specific numbers right now, but you can see here that for engineering as a whole the $15K holds. That is probably where i got that number from. It has been a couple years since i saw it, so I don't remember what the ME specific numbers are. However, I see no reason to suspect ME would as low as you have quoted.

linky

The Wiki says:

The total number of mechanical engineering jobs in 2004 was projected to grow 9% to 17%, with average starting salaries being $50,256 with a bachelor's degree, $59,880 with a master's degree, and $68,299 with a doctorate degree.

This would indicate a $10K differential at the star. Well worth the two year investment, especially when you consider the extra upward mobility (and salary increase that goes along with higher positions) granted by the advanced degree. Assuming you performed well in undergrad and score well on the GRE, grad school should not cost you a dime and you will make a small salary to support yourself while you are there. Based on the numbers from the wiki, I am looking at an 8-9 year pay back when I finish in a little over a year, assuming a constant $59,880 salary over that time span which obviously is worse than reality. That is a good return on investment considering the several additional decades of earning that will occur at a pay grade greater than possible with a BS.

$10.00/hr looks great to me. I have been graduated from college for 4 years now and have yet to attain a position that does not underemploy my education and experience. Granted I dont have a degree in engineering.

Maximum wage- 9.15/hr. That was 3 years ago. I have since accepted less money for less stressful work. I am in a unique position to able to make choices like this because I have all my insurance from the military and I have no kids.

This is not meant to be disrespectful or demeaning, but not all degrees are equal. I have no idea what you majored in, but a 4 year engineering degree pretty much guarantees $50K to start. There are many degrees that will barely allow their holders to obtain that salary level by the time they retire. When I said that nobody with an MSME was going to work for $10/hr, I was not saying $10/hr was bad money in general, it just simply is not enough to obtain that kind of expertise. It is like a law firm saying they want an experience attorney to work for $10/hr. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[jcs271]

Let it be known that I also would be interested in hiring a qualified firearms designer to rework my Kimber Pro CDP into a reliable firearm.

Currently it goes bang 30-40 times then a failure to feed with HARDBALL!

$1,000 down the drain. So much for finest, most reliable or whatever that crap is that they say in their ad.

 

[Beelzy]

Holy Low Pay Batman!

I think if I squeeze really hard, I can fart $10.00 an hour!

 

[Jim K]

There are some folks who would say it is about time they hired someone who knows something about guns.

Jim

 

[Kernel]

At my former employer, a Fortune 100 manufacturing company based in a Midwestern city with reasonable cost of living, a MSME with that skill set would pull down at least $100k a year with bonuses, expense account, fringe, and other benefits, plus or minus $20k. A fresh out of school, wet behind the ears MSME could get $50k easy. Add $5-10k and go to the front of the line if you're a diversity candidate. HR continually benchmarked salaries across many related industries, so I would say those numbers are pretty typical, and neither high or low. Still, less than what a city bus driver makes.

 

[Slamfire]

Maybe they will get someone from Eastern Europe.

 

[Nicodemus38]

To clarify the job was for a furniture company that wanted to get into medical furniture, think electric operated hospital bed. the degree requirements were in fact Mechanical Engineering. for 10 bucks an hour, for 20 hours a week. In the end I think an engineer from india took it. Going by the name, i believe the person teaches at a local community college as well.

with all the complaints on quality, and metal from Jimenez arms, and jennings and bryco, please dont say you need a phd in engineering and a BS in materials to design a gun. if someone with those degrees and experience and participated in Brycos products, i wouldnt read gun reviews in which pocket knives have been more then enough tooling to change the ramp angle on them.

 

[Ithaca37]

with all the complaints on quality, and metal from Jimenez arms, and jennings and bryco, please dont say you need a phd in engineering and a BS in materials to design a gun. if someone with those degrees and experience and participated in Brycos products, i wouldnt read gun reviews in which pocket knives have been more then enough tooling to change the ramp angle on them.

Poor products reflect bad engineering, bad QC, and bad company policy. That does not change the fact that quality designs come from good engineers.

 

[rattletrap1970]

Like most places I look for jobs at, they are all hung up on the BSME instead of caring what someone can do. 18 Years of mechanical design in varying fields somehow doesn't equal some wingnut out of school who doesn't know one end of a machine from another. "F'ing pathetic."

 

[Ithaca37]

Like most places I look for jobs at, they are all hung up on the BSME instead of caring what someone can do. 18 Years of mechanical design in varying fields somehow doesn't equal some wingnut out of school who doesn't know one end of a machine from another. "F'ing pathetic."

If you feel you can do the job and they won't hire you because you lack the credentials, get the degree. Maybe it is not fair, but it is how the world works. If hiring people such as yourself proved as good as hiring "wingnuts" they would have noticed and would take people such as yourself. Believe it or not, that engineering education is worth something. It also serves to weed out people who can not perform at that level.

Your typical BSME graduate has a background in mechanics of materials, thermodynamics, heat transfer, machine design, dynamics, fluid mechanics, fatigue and fracture. They will also have experience with finite element analysis and other design tools. Can you offer knowledge and understanding in all of these areas to a potential employer?

I know some people who spent years working as a machinist or other related occupations and then went got an engineering degree. Did they know more about design and manufacturing than your typical BSME going into their studies? You bet. Could they offer the same skill set as a BSME? Nope. That is why they were studying to get the degree.

 

[rattletrap1970]

Umm. No. How about that? In 18 years you pick a lot of that up just out of necessity. Can I do all of it, no, can I do more than most out of college, yes. The problem is, you don't even get a chance. I'm a single guy, no second income, I own a home, I've got bills. Can I afford the ridiculous fees to go back to college? Can I do that while maintaining a household and working full time, no. There are a lot of jobs where the company insists on the BSME when I know that the job performed is something I've done admirably at other places.

The paramount issue is, can you get the job done. It shouldn't be some kind of elitist club, unfortunately many times this IS exactly what I see. Then again, with so many people out of work and the perception that someone with a 4 year degree (instead of two 2 year degrees) is BETTER, the companies perceive these people as a bargain. They can pay them less and get the guy with the 4 year for the same price or less that the other guy with more experience.

 

[Country_boy_88]

Earlthegoat what kind of degree do you have???

Im not even finished with my ME degree and I make $15.50 an hour working for a large gun munfacturing just drawing small fixtures and doing work instructions.

The Manufacturing engineers make atleast 30k and design atleast 50k easily as my guess.

I turned down drafting jobs unemployed cause i was making more unemployed then they some places wanted to pay

 

[winknplink]

Umm. No. How about that? In 18 years you pick a lot of that up just out of necessity. Can I do all of it, no, can I do more than most out of college, yes. The problem is, you don't even get a chance. I'm a single guy, no second income, I own a home, I've got bills. Can I afford the ridiculous fees to go back to college? Can I do that while maintaining a household and working full time, no. There are a lot of jobs where the company insists on the BSME when I know that the job performed is something I've done admirably at other places.

The paramount issue is, can you get the job done. It shouldn't be some kind of elitist club, unfortunately many times this IS exactly what I see. Then again, with so many people out of work and the perception that someone with a 4 year degree (instead of two 2 year degrees) is BETTER, the companies perceive these people as a bargain. They can pay them less and get the guy with the 4 year for the same price or less that the other guy with more experience.

Welcome to the world of the over-qualified.

Your reasoning has merit. No other field of interest will kick you to the curb faster than engineering. As soon as you become "expensive", you will be the first to be asked to leave, and they will hire a monkey fresh out of school and train him at half your wage. This is what is wrong with "American" products. Capitalism has killed senior leadership in the name of cutting costs.

Good post.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Capitalism has killed senior leadership in the name of cutting costs.

Those "senior" leaders are always some knucklehead with a Business degree too and no idea what engineering is.

But I see this thread has gone a little off topic...

Hiring and firing in the US has gotten out of control and most if it has been brought about by the hard times. Unfortunately companies are not intrested too much in who is going to be the best person for the job. (as in the highest amount of output per dollar spent) but rather who is going to "fit in" the best. Managers do not want someone who does too good of a job because it will disrupt the balance of the outfit and start making other people look bad. They want someone who will cut corners here and there so the manager can discipline them for it and make it look like they are doing their job. If nothing ever goes wrong then who needs a manager right. They dont want to hire a poster boy for efficiency and production because that rocks the boat too much. In short they want someone who is easy to manage not someone who knows the job and has good experience. Next important point is they want someone who will work cheap or is not qualified enough for a high salary. Moral of the story is that if you have a resume and references full of praise for how productive you are and how hard of a worker you are and how you are the best at everything then you are half sunk already. Everything is done and the choices are made to further individuals agendas and not that of the company. Everyone likes to feel special and think they are more important than they actually are and since they are the manager they like to put themselves on a throne and build up a monarchy with their serfs.

Maybe I have an authority problem or maybe I have been underemployed for too long either way if I was a manager I would not want to hire me either but it is too late to change all that now.

 

[winknplink]

I turned down drafting jobs unemployed cause i was making more unemployed then they some places wanted to pay

Yup. I have been working as an adjunct instructor for a for-profit post-secondary educator for about 2 years now. I teach Acad and Inventor software. This particular job is about to go away b/c the school I work for feels their education is worth more than a "draftsman" can pay back in 10 years time.

$50k education for a $10/hour job = no work for me b/c people aren't that stupid.

Money money.

 

[winknplink]

I will say this, had I to do it over again, I'd avoid the engineering field altogether and kick the guidance counselor who suggested as much square in the berries.

Sure the money is good, but this is the 3rd recession since I have graduated, and 2 of them resulted in me not having a job while I watch my other buddies in other fields prosper.

 

[vtbluegrass]

Hey engineering no matter how you look at it is a better choice than natural resources management. That's one I should go back in time and kick my own rear for.